Talk:Cardiac skeleton

I have decided to merge the pages Fibrous rings of heart and Fibrous trigone into this page. All articles are essentially on the same topic, and this article is the best place for that information. This notice will be left for discussion for one week, if there is no objection, I will begin merging. Ronk01 (talk) 23:17, 18 May 2010 (UTC) I have executed the merger. Ronk01 (talk) 02:15, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

I understand images are requested for the article. I have looked at a lot of them and one of the best is on e-heart.org entitled "Fibrous Skeleton of the Heart". The emphasis on the asterisks denoting the left and right trigones is particularly important to understanding the function of this looping and very oddly shaped anatomic structure.lbeben 20:51, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

The cardiac skeleton seems to be more or less a curiosity to anatomists. Modern day physiologists do not seem to acknowledge it even exists. If this skeleton actually exists as described the contribution of a continuous semirigid collagenous structure originating in the center of the heart has many potential contributions to cardiac physiology. It is my observation that the "cardiac skeleton" is weighted heavily in youth with collagen and burdened in age by calcium deposition. The semantics regarding the word skeleton are difficult but well intended by whoever first looked at this strange topic. In curiosity one could imagine how the anatomy described could further define the physiology. The first hurdle is appreciation that the valves are not really working individually but are all part and parcel of the cardiac skeleton under biologic Flow Mechanics. The next hurdle is appreciation that strategically dispersed collagen in the heart confers the law of Robert Hooke as well as the follow on property of Elasticity. The next is appreciation of how a skeleton within the inner walls of the heart impacts the Law of Laplace. In my generation we cut our teeth on how Laplace influences the performance of the hollow ventricles in receiving and giving a viscous blood load 60-80 times per minute. (Homogeneously I long thought but perhaps not.) Learning that the internal walls are considerably different in structure, density and composition than the (larger) outside walls appears to alter the elasticity of the radius favoring the peripheral walls. One could then infer that another well encyclopedically documented property governing the myocardium can be linked to the Cardiac Skeleton by stating that the Compliance of the ventricle is greater in the periphery of an individually identified radius and diminished towards the center. lbeben 21:23, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

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The "predatory journal" flag is a useful warning BUT

I do think there is a spectrum: from automated "journals" publishing anything sent to them even if it's titled "Get me off your mailing-list", to OA journals from large publishers with inconsistent overview that do publish deserving papers not submitted or accepted elsewhere for a variety of reasons, often because the subject is not "hot" in the least. That is, according to me, the case for the ref that was taken out: the quote is a worthy summary of available literature on the subject and I could not think of a better way to paraphrase it. https://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Cardiac_skeleton&oldid=835717210

I read this paper, and I don't think any one would have had issues with the quote if it was taken from one of the authors' professional website. Considering the dearth of publication on the os cordis, I think this case warrants an exception to the ban.

Abie (talk) 03:51, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

A few general queries

Hi all,

Reading this page I think some of it doesn't sound correct, please correct me if I'm wrong.

"The physiologic cardiac skeleton manages to form a firewall governing autonomic/electrical influence until bordering the His Bundle which further governs autonomic flow to the bundle branches of the ventricles. Understood as such, the cardiac skeleton efficiently centers and robustly funnels electrical energy from the atria to the ventricles. This is why atrial fibrillation almost never degrades to ventricular fibrillation [tone].[citation needed]"

- I think the intro would be good if the above quoted bit is removed, the function of the cardiac skeleton is already well summarised and I think the bit quoted above doesn't really make sense. In terms of electricity, the cardiac skeleton isolates the atria from the ventricles bar the hiatus in which the AV node is situated, the electrical isolation between atria and ventricles allows the cardiac conduction system to control myocardial depolarisation in a coordinated manner to maximise mechanical function of the heart/cardiac output.

- though the cardiac skeleton play a role in preventing AF becoming VF in most cases, I don't think it should be in this article. Though the cardiac skeleton isolates atria from ventricle, saying that AF does not in most cases cause VF ignores the cardiac conduction system entirely. The AV node is the critical structure if talking about why AF doesn't become VF and when talking about the efficient conduction of electrical signal from atria and ventricle.

"Electrical signals from the sinoatrial node and the autonomic nervous system must find their way from the upper chambers to the lower ones to ensure that the ventricles can drive the flow of blood. The heart functions as a pump delivering an intermittent volume of blood, incrementally delivered to the lungs, body, and brain."

- I don't think this language is very scientific. Electrical signals don't have to find their way to the ventricles, they are transmitted through the conduction system of the heart to coordinate effective myocardial contraction that maximises mechanical function of the heart. Additionally, electrical signals from the autonomic nervous system do not travel through the heart from atria to ventricle. Autonomic nerves influence cardiac function locally where nerve meets cardiac tissue (whether muscle or AV node or SA node)

"Throughout life, the cardiac collagen skeleton is remodeled. Where collagen is diminished by age, calcium is often deposited, thus allowing readily imaged mathematical markers which are especially valuable in measuring systolic volumetrics. The inert characteristics of the collagen structure that blocks electrical influence also make it difficult to attain an accurate signal for imaging without allowing for an applied ratio of collagen to calcium."

- Mumbo jumbo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.3.86.167 (talk) 13:39, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Ambiguous section

Section Fibrous rings:

The right and left fibrous rings of heart (annuli fibrosi cordis) surround the atrioventricular and arterial orifices. The right fibrous ring is known as the annulus fibrosus dexter cordis, and the left is known as the annulus fibrosus sinister cordis. The right fibrous trigone is continuous with the central fibrous body. This is the strongest part of the fibrous cardiac skeleton

Does that indicate: The right trigone is the strongest part of cardiac skeleton - or - Fibrous rings are strongest part of cardiac skeleton ?

Kurosh (talk) 16:17, 3 September 2024 (UTC)