Talk:Capri-Sun/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Guerillero (talk · contribs) 11:36, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

I will take this one. It might be a tad too FAC-like, but I doubt the noms will care all that much. --In actu (Guerillero) ^{Parlez Moi} 11:36, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Images:

• File:Capri Sun EMEA logo.png you need to do better than see source

  Sorry, can you be more specific? Is the concern licensing or provenance? -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 21:50, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

  The fact that it is under copyright in Germany shouldn't require digging when there is a PD-US template on it. --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:30, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

   Fixed -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:19, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Lead:

• Clear to yellowish or reddish the -ish construction seems too informal

  Color parameter  Removed per discussion with coäuthor. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:40, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

• Cite 3 seems unneeded per WP:LEADCITE. If you want to keep it, I have some WP:MEDRS-style objections to citing newspaper articles that cite the paper. Especially when the paper is open access

  The material in question was explicitly challenged by a user in good standing, so I don't see how we can get around a ledecite. As to the use of newspaper articles, that was because there's some connections that the paper doesn't explicitly spell out but the newspapers and/or quotes from the coauthors draw more clearly, which it would be arguably SYNTH to assert citing only the paper. But what if we removed footnote 3 and then changed the current footnote 4 to

  {{harvnb|Nguyen|Glantz|Palmer|Schmidt|2019}}. See also summaries {{harvnb|Jacobs|2019a}} ("tobacco executives, barred from targeting children for cigarette sales, focused their marketing prowess on young people to sell sugary beverages in ways that had not been done before") and {{harvnb|Dyson|2019}} ({{" '}}[T]he Kool-Aid kid program was modeled after a tobacco marketing strategy designed to build allegiance with smokers'[, said Nguyen] ... The tobacco company also purchased Capri Sun and Tang, and used similar child-centric marketing strategies to push sales").
  

  -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:40, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

  Looks better -- Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:30, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

   Changed -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:19, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

• I would just call them Banlieues

  I've actually broadened the statement in the lede after reviewing the two Slate sources, but have linked to banlieue in the body. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 05:24, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

  Sounds good -- Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:31, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Origins:

• 1931 would be the Weimar Republic

  At least the way our articles characterize it, isn't the Weimar Republic a time period rather than political entity? -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 00:08, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

  The article look like a political entity to me --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:35, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

  This isn't the type of thing I like to push back on (I save that for quirky things mostly), but I still disagree. Weimar Republic says that it was a historical period of Germany from 1918 to 1933, while German Reich says it was the the German nation-state that existed from 18 January 1871 to 5 June 1945 and includes the Weimar Republic as a period. However, looking at biographies of Germans born in this time period, most do seem to treat the Weimar Republic and German Empire as places. I think this is, quite simply, incorrect. A period of history is not a place. Wild was not born in the Weimar Republic any more than I was born in home-rule-era D.C. or live in 1947-constitution-era New Jersey (which, I mean, are true statements if talking about time, but not about place). So I've  split the difference between prevailing practice and accuracy and say in the German Reich in 1931, during the Weimar Republic. I don't care enough to start an RfC, but if anyone ever does, in the unlikely event they've read this comment please do ping me. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:19, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

• I would rethink the wikivoyage link

  In general I'm a big fan of links to sister projects. There's rarely a good occasion to link to Wikivoyage, but specifically discussing a place's status as a tourist destination seemed like one. Is there a particular issue with it? -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 00:08, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

  Seems like an easter egg link to me. Sending people to another project should be done without astonishment. --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:35, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

  How about this? (See Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 November 24 § Tourism in North America for consensus for such redirects.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:49, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

• this makes it unusual in a largely American-led beverage industry seems like WP:OR

  This is a paraphrase from the cited Die Welt source:

  In der Getränkebranche genießt der Drink aus Deutschland Sonderstatus: "Bei Softdrinks war es Jahrzehnte so, dass die Amerikaner mit ihren Produkten weltweit Nummer eins waren. Capri-Sonne zeigt, dass es auch anders geht", sagt Günther Guder, Vorstandsmitglied im Bundesverband des Deutschen Getränkefachgroßhandels.

  Google Translate: The drink from Germany enjoys a special status in the beverage industry: "For decades, the Americans were number one in soft drinks with their products worldwide. Capri-Sonne shows that there is another way," says Günther Guder, board member of the Federal Association of Germans beverage wholesalers.

  -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 21:13, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

  Please cite it. Mid sentence citations tell me only the clause is cited --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:35, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

   Done -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:19, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

North America:

• At the same time these marketing changes were occurring, obesity rates among children in the United States began rising, a phenomenon attributed in part to the rise in sugary drinks consumption across the board[34]–including food industry advertising, which has been linked to a rise in obesity in both children and adults. feels like a WP:SYNTH issue unless you can find sourcing that connects the product to obesity
  • Jacobs 2019a, covering Nguyen et al.: the companies cultivated loyalty to sugar-laden products that health experts said had greatly contributed to the nation’s obesity crisis." The other cited source covers Kraft Foods and Capri Sun in that context as well. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:02, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
• When did Kraft become independent?
  • From the article: even after Kraft became independent of the company in 2007. 21:02, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
• In January 2023, a class action was filed against Capri Sun in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York over its branded apple juice; Eboni Forbes, the class representative, claimed that its use of citric acid as an ingredient contravened its claim of having "no artificial colors, flavors or preservatives". feels like recentism.
  • Yeah, but given the coverage and the fact that it's not the first lawsuit they've suffered for stuff like this, I think we just wait on that one. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:02, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

  We should probably wait to see if this survives a motion to dismiss -- Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:10, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

  Perhaps pare it back to just the first clause? I tend to agree that, with a previous lawsuit for a similar issue, it's DUE to at least briefly mention the ongoing one. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 00:08, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

  I would pair it back or drop it --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:44, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

   Pared back and moved alongside the related "all-natural" suit content. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:19, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Products:

• What is Bio flavor? Organic I assume due to my Danish and French, but you should probably link

   Clarified. Press-release-y article in a French trade mag, but should do for our purposes I think. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 23:55, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

• sourer -> more sour

  done :) theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 03:38, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Public perception

• Can you cite all of your stats, svp
  • Not sure what "svp" means :P theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her)`
  • Tamzin has informed me it means "please", but I'm still kind of unclear on what's unsourced there? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 03:38, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

looks better -- Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:46, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Sourcing:

• I question how scholarly the Harvard Chan source is
  • It's not scholarly per se, but it'd work under WP:USEBYOTHERS – we could slim it down to reflect that, though. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:02, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
    • I was mostly thinking of including it with journal articles since it isn't peer reviewed. --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:44, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
      •  Moved to "other sources". -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:19, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

• You sometimes use the padlocks and sometimes don't

  Are there citations that should have gray padlocks but don't? Note that not all Washington Post articles are behind the metered paywall; one can tell by viewing the page source. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 21:13, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

• What is the title of Zapata 2000?

  It is unclear. ProQuest gives "Deleitara Kraft con sus bebidas", but that grammar confuses Google Translate, and confuses me looking at Wiktionary, and confuses the fairly fluent Spanish speaker I ran it by. Even if one were to go with a hyper-literal translation, ProQuest for some damn reason strips diacritics, so it's not possible to translate perfectly because the meaning changes depending on whether it's deleitara or deleitarà. And attempts to find copies of the source elsewhere on the Web have all failed. For these reasons, I chose to treat it like a source with no title at all and use its first sentence as the title instead. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:55, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

  Works for me --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:44, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

• Is "the biz is fizz" a one time thing? If yes, I would cut it

  Whoops, I'd thought that was the name of a recurring series, but it looks like it's the first half of the headline, just with some nonstandard layout.  Fixed -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:55, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

  cool --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:44, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

• China daily is meh, but you seem to have moved past the questionable parts

  Yes, the two times where it's the only source, I gave in-text attribution. I do kind of get a kick out of the fact that our only source (that I could find) for the number of Capri-Sun flavors is the Chinese Communist Party. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:55, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

• The old style abrvations are weird Mich., U.S and Montreal, Que., Canada. Just use the two letter postal ones

  These are standard AP abbreviations for the U.S. and traditional abbreviations for Canada. I prefer them because they're clearer to readers. How many Americans, let alone non-Americans, know off the top of their head whether "MI" is Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, or Mississippi? Whereas if you have a passing familiarity with what the U.S. states are, "Mich." is unambiguous, even if you haven't seen that abbreviation before. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 21:13, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

  As you wish --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:44, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

• Also, be consistent about including places

  Okay, should now be the case that every print newspaper has a publication place listed, plus one geographically-limited online publication whose name is ambiguous (The Local Germany). Please let me know if I missed any. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 23:31, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

  Looks good --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:44, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

• Adweek is a trade pub
  • Could you elaborate on that? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:02, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

    It should be in the trade publication section -- Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:11, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

    Because of blurriness between news and trade publication at times, I had defined the latter category by hidden comment as "Beverage industry publications, and/or sources that are just business data/analysis". Perhaps I should change the section heading to something like "Beverage industry publications and business data"? Or I can just move Adweek there. 🤷 -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 23:31, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

    I would move it rather than do fancy footwork to keep it out --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:44, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

     Done -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:19, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

• The Times 100 Business Case Studies seems questionable
  • Replaced with [1]. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 23:31, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
    • Perf --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:44, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

• Is Vinepair a RS?
  • Not an established one, but they're basically doing the exact same thing the other sources are doing – tasting Capri-Sun and writing down their observations. No reason to only go for the snobby ones. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:02, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
    • To say I think the same thing but with a different emphasis: VinePair, from everything I can tell, meets the minimum criteria for reliability—independence, editorial oversight, decently cited by other minimally-reliable sources. I wouldn't be citing it for BLP claims or even something about what Kraft's bottom line is, but I concur with leek that they are reliable to the extent of expressing an opinion on Capri Sun flavors. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:49, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

      I will accept it -- In actu (Guerillero) ^{Parlez Moi} 12:41, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

If you think something is too much for a GA and I acted too much like I was at FAC, just tell me --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 20:41, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

I welcome the degree of feedback, as long as you don't mind some pushback on a few points. I'm a bit busy at the moment, but have responded on a few to begin with. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 21:13, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

@Guerillero: Well I think that's everything, unless you have remaining concerns about Vinepair or any of the latest changes? Thank you so much for this thorough review, and of course if there are any outstanding issues, I remain available. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:49, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, echoing my thanks! Super useful feedback :) theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 23:14, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

I think I filed the paperwork correctly to make the bot happy -- In actu (Guerillero) ^{Parlez Moi} 12:57, 7 March 2023 (UTC)