Talk:Cacık

Why no food history references?

 Where in history books first word Cacik is mentioned? I would like to solve this puzzle.  If this is truly a turkik food then there should be some mention in Turk history/Ottomon history books.--67.135.148.188 (talk) 21:42, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Recipe

This article should be expanded to include a description of the recipe and what makes Cacık different from Tzatziki. 12.20.127.229 20:48, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Etymology

What is the etymology? Badagnani (talk) 08:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

• Tzaziki or cacik are some words. Jaj in kurd and persian language means spice and herbals and -ık is a turkish suffix so means add some spies or herbals to yoghurt. --77.92.72.214 (talk) 08:32, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging

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Merging

Cacık and tarator are completely different dishes in Turkey, therefore this article shouldn't be merged with tarator.--Abuk SABUK (talk) 07:50, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

• But there is no certain recipe for tatarator on the world. Cacık is called as tarator in Bulgaria. There are a lot of mezze at turkish cuisisne called as tarator but they different. So there is no certain tarator.. But they have to be catagorized by experts.. Just tarator in bulgaria is cacık may be it can be called as cucumber tarator --58.213.51.43 (talk) 18:25, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

isnt it the same as labne?!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.200.107.209 (talk) 14:34, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Name Change Proposal

I am thinking Cacik is not an appropriate name for English Wikipedia, as it is a Turkish spelling of 'Jajukh', regardless of its etymology. Cacik is more suited for a Turkish site, in English Jajukh makes more sense and is closer to the English pronunciation - otherwise Cacik in English for a casual reader would be like 'Sasik' which is incorrect. I propose a name change to jajukh. Thinkfood (talk) 06:11, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

• oppose— The pronunciation follows immediately in the first sentence of the lead. "Jajukh" is a thousand times less prevalent than "cacık" according to google, with a scant five hundred hits versus nearly five hundred thousand. English is full of foreign loan words, and is famous among speakers of other languages for our erratic connection between spelling and pronunciation. We also have a history of well-intentioned efforts to rationalise English spelling. Despite that, English continues to display a wealth of orthographic oddities, and we continue to deal with it. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 11:44, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
• oppose—there are more hundred articles which named with french but nobody want to change names for english. Turkish language almost latin why some people want to change as spelled one? Why nobody change the french named articles to english spelled ones?? İstanbul is istanbul cacik is cacik tzaziki is tzaziki no requiere change. Also yogurt come from turkish language but nobody spell is true just spell with their ways..58.213.51.43 (talk) 18:18, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Who decidaded the divorcity of Tzatziki and Cacık.

There is radical nationalist problem. Why some people divorce the articles Tzatziki and Cacık they same foods and same names at different countries and different alnguages. People have to respect every culture but there is a no proof of Cacık and Tzatziki are different dishes. I will merged again please dont divorce before discus that.--Denereri (talk) 09:29, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

• I merged again. Please be carefully discus before divorce again. --Denereri (talk) 10:01, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Thank you. This is as it should be; there is no proof of the two dishes being separate. Ithinkicahn (talk) 19:22, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Name is misleading

Tzatziki or Cazik origin is a dispute of Greece and Turkey. Tzatziki Name though, is more widely known and recognized by non Greek and Turkish people. Thus, I think that a solo article should be made with main title Tzatziki and describing within the article about the Turkish-Greek dispute. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vagr7 (talk • contribs) 21:15, 20 June 2014

This message is unsigned, so I don't know who or when wrote this, and I don't even really understand what it says, but I've never heard anyone in Greece call Τζατζίκι "Cacık". I first read this word on the page. I think the page should be moved. -Λίνουξ (talk) 17:34, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: split. No one has actually made a proper counter-arguments to Skookum1's claim they are actually different things and so should have separate articles. Tzatziki actually used to be a separate article until it was unilaterally merged here, so I'll undo that and then hopefully after a little bit of editing from people more knowledgeable about this topic area than myself and we'll be right as rain. Jenks24 (talk) 15:22, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

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Cacık → Tzatziki – The name of the sauce is Tzatziki but there is a strong reference of the history of Tzatziki that originates from Turkey. The article should be named after Tzatziki and the history of the sauce can be integrated into a paragraph on the history. The name tzatziki became widely known through the Greek cuisine and the name Cacik is simple misleading the reader. The history of the sauce is not deleted and I propose thatshould be included within the article because the Greek and Turkish civilizations and cuisines have many similarities. It would be unfair though to make an article for Tzatziki and one for Cacik. On the other hand it would be unfair also to name the article Cacik when almost eveyone looks to read about Tzatziki. Last but not least it is unfair to name the article Cacik when this name is known only within Turkey and not in Europe which is known as Tzatziki, not in North America which is known as Tzatziki as well and finally the name tzatziki is used widely in many top chefs cookbooks around the world. The name tzatziki has dominated every reference of this sauce worldwide. Cacik is only referenced within Turkey. Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 07:37, 14 July 2014 (UTC) User:Vagr7 16:45, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

• Support. In my experience Tzatziki is the more commonly used name. Calidum ^{Talk To Me} 20:21, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
  • That's because tzatziki and Greek cuisine are more known to the English-speaking world than cacik and Turkish cuisine. They are not the same dish, despite the common ingredients and (Turkic) etymology.Skookum1 (talk) 14:55, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose In my experience Tzatziki is also the more commonly used name, but that's because I have a Greek restaurant nearby not a Turkish one, so my experience is completely irrelevant. The article as it stands is Turkish Turkish Turkish all the way. Not sure whether a Greek WP:Fork is justified or not, but moving the article isn't. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:14, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
• Development of the proposal. Tzatziki is widely known despite your neighbourhood restaurants. You said it alone. Almost every one looks for Tzatziki. In case someone is looking for Cacik, he should learn that is has a good relation with Tzatziki. Now the article is completely wrong because it leads the reader to the conclusion that Cacik is the only sauce and one alternative in Greece is called Tzatziki. Actually, the exact opposite is the truth. Now, how fair does it sound that to you? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vagr7 (talk • contribs) 12:29, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Caciks NOT a "sauce", it is a soup, eaten with a spoon. They are different dishes; maybe if you knew more about Turkish food you'd already know that instead of pretending it's the same thing, or served the same way, or is a "sauce" like tzatziki (actually I'd call it a condiment or a side dish, not what "sauce" normally means in English).Skookum1 (talk) 14:55, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
• Support, Tzatziki is more familiar to most English readers. I think this article has suffered from the Greece-Turkey dispute but Tzatziki is just food, not an Aegean island. Tasty food. Dental plan / lisa needs braces! 13:02, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Who cares if tzatziki is more familiar to [some] English readers. Those English readers who know Turkish cuisine know that cacik is a different dish, and different type of dish, completely. Saying apples and oranges both contain vitamin C and are fruits is not a reason to merge the two.Skookum1 (talk) 14:55, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. Total agreement about tasty food, and that the article has suffered from Greek/Turk dispute. Familiarity with the name most likely varies with location. Within easy reach of Boston, Massachusetts, to pick just one example, there are half a dozen (or so) Turkish restaurants. Very few of us are lexicographers, so I'm not sure how far we can get with an argument about familiarity, or etymology, for that matter. __Just plain Bill (talk) 15:53, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
• Development of the proposal Some guys dont like to talk or maybe dont even know how to discuss at all but they revert the article in order to make it Turkish. If you have problem please state it here before reverting anything about the Greek name tzatziki. Fair enough I think. If you think this is unfair name an article Cacik and one Tzatziki and lets count the visits if you dare. Tzatziki is the greek name of the sauce used wordwide but user Just plain Bill dont want to understand this. He reverts the article hiding behind anonimity and does not state here his oposition. Dear user unless you state at the talk page your arguments the article is not going to change into Turkish. If you disagree two articles will be created one Cacik and one Tzatziki. You cannot praise Turkish Cacik in the fame of the name Tzatziki.Vagr7 (talk) 21:28, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

You just added a second "support" to this section. Did you mean to do that? One user, one vote...

I understand completely that tzatziki is the Greek name for this dish. Just this afteroon I was visiting my Armenian-American friend, and brought some pita and hummus to share, along with some of what my local "Mediterranean market," owned by a Lebanese American, labels "cucumber-yogurt salad." The Armenian pronunciation is similar, but different.

This article has used the title "Cacık" for nearly ten years, since September of 2005. Readers who come looking for "Tzatziki" are seamlessly redirected to this page. The kind of changes you keep making to the lead paragraph are covered by the "bold edit, revert, discuss" pattern. Until we reach consensus here, your continued reversion to your favored change amounts to edit warring. Please stop that. __Just plain Bill (talk) 22:08, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

You should not change the article as you wish without supporting it here. Please try to support your arguments here before changeing it once again. Otherwise the two articles will be separated and you can edit article Cacik as you like without anyone bothering you. If you really believe that Cacik stands out of the crowd for itself make a new separate article and leave this article to be name Tzatziki. Finally, please try to present arguments and do not avoid answering why the article should named Tzatziki. I doubt if Wikipedia community and readers worldwide care how your friends call Tzatziki and what is your favourite neibourhood restaurant. Please stop being arrogant. The name should be change and it is already late. This should have happend years ago. Dont sabotage the article anymore, its worthless. My support lines would not count ofcourse. Try to focus on the subject we discuss here and dont slip away.Vagr7 (talk) 09:24, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

The point of my comment, which I perhaps should have emphasized more, since it seems to have gone right over your head, is that the "Mediterranean" market in my city does not label it either "cacık" or "tzatziki", but uses plain English labeling. This neatly avoids the need to take one side or another, in a community including speakers of various flavors of Arabic, Armenian, Greek, and Turkish. __Just plain Bill (talk) 18:35, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

• Support I don't really see where the potential for debate is. The google Ngram shows that it's not even a competition with Tzatziki clearly being the more common name in English sources.[1] Google books shows 16,900 hits for Tzatziki[2] and 1,520 hits for Cacik[3]. A factor of 10 difference leaves very little room for debate, Tzatziki is the common name in English.--Labattblueboy (talk) 04:39, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

• Support I had never even heart the term Cacık before, but Tzatziki is commonly known in English-speaking countries. As others have pointed out, Tzatziki is overall a more commonly used term in English. That seems to me to mean that Tzatziki should be the term used, considering WP:EN, ie. that the "title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language". Phil Urich (talk) 04:00, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
  • That's a completely specious argument, as is LBB's. Especially if you've never heard the term before, who are you to offer any kind of vote at all?? Cacik is a completely different dish than Tzatziki; that Greek cuisine is better-known in the west than Turkish fare is completely beside the point. When writing about Turkish cuisine, the "most common in the English language" for the Turkish dish is NOT tzatziki, it is cacik. Maybe you should try some sometime, if you can find a Turkish restaurant. The Greco-chauvinism of the nominator here is blatant and in-your-face; supporting it by referring to the ignorance of most westerners about Turkish cuisine (including your own professed ignorance of this term and/or dish) is only supporting a completely groundless and useless nomination.Skookum1 (talk) 14:49, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Development of the proposal The name of the article should be named Tzatziki because it is the Greek sauce the readers looks for that is also has many variations around the Balcans and Turkey. The merge of the civilizations led to the different names and influence of the sauce TZATZIKI, thus this history should be included in the article. Let me explain with an example. Churros is the Spanish Doughnut variation. If you hit Churros, you end up in the Churros named article. You dont end up in the article name Doughnut which has a paragraph Churros in it (you can check that). OK these may not share the same history of invention but it is the same fried dough which is differently shaped and it has two different articles in Wikipedia. Furthermore, if you hit French fries you do not end up to the Frieten page which is the belgian inventors name for french fries or an eglish article named Frieten, neither when you search for pasta you end up to the chinese-named article which invented it 意式麵食, neither when you search for hamburger you reach the german-named wiki page hambürger.Vagr7 (talk) 14:11, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

• Completely oppose Cacik is very different from tzatziki; the one is a soup, the other a condiment/sauce; Cacik is eaten with a spoon. Just because they're both made of cucumber and yogurt and share an etymology does NOT mean they are the same thing. It doesn't matter diddly-squat if tzatziki is better-known in the English-speaking world, cacik is NOT the same thing.Skookum1 (talk) 06:41, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
  • You Completely oppose but you disagree with the current article layout also. Then you should make a new request for the two articles to be listed separately. I am not predending that Cacik is a recipe that I know well, but even this supports my arguments. Vagr7 (talk) 14:27, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
• Relisting comment. Giving this some more time so that the argument that they are two different things can be assessed. Jenks24 (talk) 07:37, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
• Support or split - Google trends indicates many more users are searching for "tzatziki" than any alternatives (oddly, the search spikes every July - wonder why), so the article shouldn't stay where it is per WP:COMMONNAME. But if the two are very different things, as Skookum1 suggests, they should be in separate articles. Ibadibam (talk) 22:46, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

What is the difference with Cacık and Tzatziki

There is no proof of difference of Cacık and Tzatziki just regional variantions. Each of them come from Ottoman roots. And there are some proof of that that is not greek nor turkish it come from armenian roots. Tzatziki can be more popular or not but it just show popularity in USA! Nobody can discuss it. --Denereri (talk) 16:29, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Pretty simple difference; Cacik is a soup, and Tzatziki is a thick spread. And they taste different.Skookum1 (talk) 01:54, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Tzatziki is a spread for bread or meats and Cacik a summer cold soup. They share the same ingredients but they cannot put together. A sweet chocolate pizza share the same ingredients with a chocolate donut. It is impossible to share the same article. I can indicate you endless variations of similar foods that do not share the same article because they are different. See 1,2,3,4 and much more. If you think they should put together, then start from bread and pizza and then try to merge Tzatziki and Cacik. Baklava is a common desert - among many others - between Turkey and Greece. They share the same name and it is exactly the same dessert in both countries. Therefore, the article main frame is correct. One name and variations around the Balkans including the Greek Baklava and the Turkish baklava. It is the same thing. You dont put Cacik over your kebap rather you drink it alongside with it. On the other hand, it is advisable to spread Tzatziki over it. If those dont cover you I can analyse you the common used name policy of wikipedia. Another important reason to use the name Tzatziki and not Cacik even it it is the same dish. Vagr7 (talk) 13:08, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Main misunderstanding people think turkish people drink cacık as a soup. No. Cacık is a sidedish we called meze also greeks called meze, cacık and tzaziki same root and same words which come from some persian-roots. So all of them variations of same thing. Please dont show american web sites as a references because so many things change form in united states markets(!) tzatziki and cacık served traditionaly as a MEZZE in Turkey and in Greece. Just form change due to times. Cacık sometimes served like greek tzatziki form and some times served like bulgarian tarator. Tzatziki is served in Greece just strained form. I can summarize my observation again Cacık have two forms in Turkey one is like bulgarian tarator, cold and soup like form as a side dish commonly served summers. Other one is meze it also a side dish made by strained yoghurt near some meats and rakı like Tzatziki. So there is no reason make different pages. Cacık or Tzatziki main article is enough to show true information about variation of this SIDE DISH. --Denereri (talk) 13:09, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

A independent article from Magyar wikipedia https://hu.wiki.x.io/wiki/Dzadz%C3%ADki — Preceding unsigned comment added by Denereri (talk • contribs) 13:36, 15 August 2014 (UTC)