Talk:Bunt sind schon die Wälder

Did you know nomination

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

J. F. Reichardt

• ... that the melody for the song "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) that Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) created in 1799 has remained popular? Source: [1]
  • Reviewed: David Hilchen

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 2124 past nominations.

Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC).

• I shall review this. Storye book (talk) 10:41, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Thank you for this interesting article. I would like to hear this one. A few comments:

• Earwig finds only quotations and proper names. No problem there.
• The hook citation (above) for ALT0 was not in the article, so I added it there. I also gave the article a very minor copyedit. That does not affect this DYK review.
• One issue: The citation given above for ALT0 does not confirm popularity. Popularity is mentioned in the name of the website, but not in the main text of the website. Also, the website name says (if I understand correctly) "popular and traditional lieder", so according to that, this piece could be in traditional style (which does not imply popularity). So I think we need to EITHER find another citation OR another hook. Storye book (talk) 11:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Storye book: Not really a fan of the proposed hook, since the context given does not seem to make it clear why it is important that it has remained popular, and the context of it remaining popular is not clear (what is intended by "remained popular"?). I was going to suggest a hook involving Schubert, but the meaning of "different setting" is not clear: does it mean he wrote another melody to the song, or that Reichardt's melody was later re-used by Schubert? If it's the latter then perhaps that could work as a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

The wording I had in mind was something like "... that the melody of "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) was later used by Franz Schubert?", but I'm not sure if that was the intended context of the "Schubert wrote a different setting" part. That suggestion could probably still be worked on, I just threw it out here for brainstorming purposes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:42, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you - both - for thinking. I am open to rewording. Grammar: in German, "und" says that something is both, both traditional and popular", - if it was only one, German would use "oder". As you will have seen, there were multiple melodies, before and after, but this is the one in most publications, recorded, sung. Take Hannes Wader, a singer-songwriter himself: singing that old melody. (yt at the bottom) - Schubert wrote a different setting (= different melody + different piano), which didn't become popular, - note that only one of the uses mentioned has his version, - it remained for art singers and higher school education. What word would you choose instead of "popular" for: is the one that people know and sing? Schubert is really only a side note here, his setting didn't get popular in any sense, it's not Erlkönig. I didn't know he wrote a melody, but now he wrote 700 (as DYK once informed us). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:35, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Would it help to add that it was recorded among the "80 most popular Volkslieder" [2]. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

The new reference given by Gerda Arendt is satisfactory, and it explains the meaning of popularity in the article's context. Gerda, could you please give us an ALT1, and put the new sentence and citation in the article? Thank you. Storye book (talk) 08:16, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Storye bookYou mean a sentence about that collection? (In another nom, someone mentioned "promotional". Anyway, ref added, which supports "remained popular. Will search for more. As a little gift: a children's tv version ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I added two more indications of popularity, a 2011 poll and a 2017 collection. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:11, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

ALT0a: ... that the Volkslied "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) has remained popular with the 1799 melody by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured)?

to avoid the impression that only the melody remained popular. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, Gerda. The citation is now in the article, and I approve ALT0a, with image. Storye book (talk) 09:40, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Pulling this per this discussion. Jlwoodwa raised concerns that the hook was hard to understand. In addition, the hook at best probably borderline meets WP:DYKINT. Some possible alternative suggestions:

• ALT1 ... that "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" placed second in a 2011 poll by MDR on the most beautiful Volkslied?
• ALT1a ... that "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" placed second in a 2011 poll by MDR on the most beautiful German folk song?

Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:48, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

for ALT 1 or 1a, subject to Gerda Arendt's approval. Storye book (talk) 09:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I am sorry that I wrote so misleading. Not true. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: As far as I can see, you have not written anything misleading or untrue. Please explain? Thanks.

Regarding the word, "popular", in the discussion someone appeared confused by the word, presumably because they lived in a world so narrow that they did not know that "popular music" is a subsidiary meaning of "popular", which has for hundreds of years just meant that a lot of people liked something. Storye book (talk) 10:19, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

The poll had 20 suggestions without Herbstlied. IT was No. 2 of the additional ones. - Please word for me. A song with a 1799 tune is still popular. The song hast a longish title in German, which I thought was good to translate. The title could mean anything, so we have to say what it is if you ask me. As you will not have noticed the hook is a bit quirky because with a composed melody it's not what you'd expect a Volkslied to be. Why would we not credit the composer who won over Schubert in popularity? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

ALT2 ... that the folk-style melody for "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" was composed long ago by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) and it is still liked by many?

ALT1b .... that radio listeners voted "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" second in their suggested list of the most beautiful German folk songs? (See Gerda's comment above, regarding this one). Storye book (talk) 11:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Third party required to approve ALT2 and/or ALT1b only. Storye book (talk) 11:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I think ALT1b would get us into trouble with ERRORS because it's more No. 22, and tough to explain with the 20 from the station. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)