Talk:Boa Vista, Cape Verde

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Merger proposal

I propose that Boa Vista, Cape Verde (municipality) be merged into Boa Vista, Cape Verde. I propose the same for the similar islands/municipalities listed below. The municipality Boa Vista covers the same area as the island Boa Vista, consequently there is a large (possible) overlap between the two articles. This makes it difficult to distinguish what information belongs in which article (geography, settlements, population details, history). I think it is the most intuitive for readers to keep all information in one article, which will not be problematically large. See for similar cases Samos and Tinos (island, regional unit and municipality), Vlieland (island and municipality), Anglesey (island and historic county), Dominica (island and country), Hainan (island and province), Bali (island and province). There has been a discussion about this topic before at WT:WikiProject Cape Verde/Places#Regarding Boa Vista, Brava, Maio, and Sal, but apparently without widely supported conclusion, given the mergers and reverts that took place in 2009 and 2010. So I propose the following mergers:

• Boa Vista, Cape Verde (municipality) into Boa Vista, Cape Verde
• Brava, Cape Verde (municipality) into Brava, Cape Verde
• Maio, Cape Verde (municipality) into Maio, Cape Verde
• Sal, Cape Verde (municipality) into Sal, Cape Verde
• São Vicente, Cape Verde (municipality) into São Vicente, Cape Verde
• Praia, Cape Verde (municipality) into Praia (city and municipality cover the same area)

Markussep ^Talk 09:21, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

• Against. I do not understand your argumentation in saying “it difficult to distinguish what information belongs in which article”. The articles about the Municipalities of Cape Verde talk about… the Municipality! I.E., about the political subdivision. When talking about political subdivisions there is no need, perhaps, in mentioning other issues that are not related, such as settlements, history, etc.

Some editors in Wikipedia are eager to do a good job. But sometimes, they assume that what applies to a specific country may be applied to others. That is not always the case. Taking Boa Vista as example, if you are talking about the history of the island, you talk just about the island of Boa Vista. But when you talk about the history of the Municipality, it encompasses the island of Sal that used to belong to the Municipality of Boa Vista. The Municipality of São Vicente also covers the Island of Santa Luzia. About Praia, you are mistaken, the city does not cover the same area as the Municipality. The are some places (São Francisco, Trindade, São Martinho, etc.) that are not considered as the city of Praia. The distinction is clear in what is referred here by Praia Urbano and Praia Rural. Maybe you are influenced by some other countries where the cities have grown bigger and, presently, cover the whole Municipality. That is not the case in Cape Verde. There is no settlement (city, town) that covers all the area of the respective Municipality.

Besides, when we started working about the articles about Cape Verde, we agreed to maintain an organized structure, with separate levels and separate nomenclature, precisely to avoid confusions between what is an island (geographical feature), a municipality (political subdivision), a city (a settlement), etc. Also, making merges will cause problems with the interwikis to other languages, where the logical structure is respected.

Being now in Cape Verde, it is a bit difficult to me to check Wikipedia daily, but I intend to correct some mistakenly made merges, like merging freguesias with municipalities (politically, they have very different functions, even if they may cover the same area).

Ten Islands (talk) 20:01, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

By the way, another common mistake I’ve seen in Wikipedia: the official statistics for the population are made by Municipalities; I am not aware about any up to date data about the population of the cities; what many editors have been putting as being the population of the settlements is actually the population of the Municipalities.

Ten Islands (talk) 20:09, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

In my opinion, keeping articles about municipalities and islands that share the same area inevitably results in large overlap between the articles, and more confusion for the reader than if the articles were combined. You actually demonstrated that yourself by re-adding the historic population data, economy and transport to municipality articles, when the same data was already given at the corresponding island articles. The agreement you referred to above is probably this one from 2008. Consensus can change, that's why I started this discussion. I propose to put information about the municipality (when was it created, politics, subdivisions) in the corresponding island articles, in a section "Administration" or "Municipality". Some remarks about the other topics you mentioned:

1. The information that Sal used to be part of the municipality of Boa Vista could be given in a section "Administration" or "Municipality", in both island articles
2. Santa Luzia is not part of the municipality of São Vicente. The area given for the municipality of São Vicente in the 2010 census summary is 226.7 km², the area given for the island of São Vicente in the Statistical Yearbook 2015, p. 25 is 227 km². Santa Luzia is 35 km², so if it were part of the municipality of São Vicente, that area should be at least 262 km². If I read this reference, p. 30 correctly, Santa Luzia and the other uninhabited islands are directly governed by the State, not by a municipality.
3. According to the 2010 census summary I quoted above, indeed 2.9% of the population of Praia is rural. It's not clear to me which of the lugares mentioned in the 2010 census results are "rural". So sensu strictu the city Praia (if you consider the urban part of Praia as the city) and the municipality cover different areas. Still there will be much overlap between the city and the municipality, so if they would not be merged, we should make it clear which information belongs where.
4. There are 11 other wikipedias that have separate articles for Boa Vista island and municipality, and there's 25 that cover both in the same article. I don't think interwiki linking is such a problem.
5. I think I merged most of the freguesia articles myself in 2014, when I was cleaning up the mess that blocked User:Pumpie left. As far as I can see neither you nor other members of the Cape Verde wikiproject have ever edited these articles. Recreating these will result in even more overlapping articles. I don't think there's much to write about freguesias. They do exist, they're mentioned in the detailed census results, but contrary to what is written in Administrative divisions of Cape Verde, I can't find anything about their administration. There are no "juntas de freguesia" in Cape Verde, nor elections at that level, are there?
6. Could you give an example of a municipality population that was erroneously added as settlement population? Markussep ^Talk 10:31, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Since I haven't seen any response for over a month, I've gone ahead and merged Sal, Cape Verde (municipality) into Sal, Cape Verde as an example of what I think should be done for at least the five islands. If you (plural) see a problem with this merger, or have suggestions how to improve the articles, please let me know. Markussep ^Talk 20:29, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

I have also merged the Brava, Boa Vista, São Vicente and Maio articles. Any thoughts on the Praia articles? Markussep ^Talk 12:11, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi, the Praia merge make sense, is time to vote? Krauss (talk) 19:07, 17 May 2019 (UTC)