Talk:Biblical clothing

From DYK review

Too many problems. Essentially a cut-and-paste from various sources over 100 years old, done by someone with an uncertain grasp of written English (I had to correct a basic grammatical error in the 2nd sentence). The sentence "By soldiers of to-day pointed shoes are worn over the sandals, affording protection to the toes in mountainous districts." comes direct from s.5 of an entry in the Schaff–Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge of 1914 or earlier. The "religious clothing" section mixes up modern and ancient usages without saying which is which. The article did not make it clear that it deals only with the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament, which I will alter. No secondary sources dating to later than 1915 are used on the main subject. Far too few links exept biblerefs and pronunciation respelling key ones. A difficult subject for sure, but this is not ready to go on the main page. Johnbod (talk) 11:39, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Biblical clothing: phonetic spelling

It is not gibberish is useful information--called phonetic spelling-- from a cited source. You may not remove text just because of personal opinions or WP:OR.

See Template:Respell. tahc ^chat 05:10, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

The ref gives Hebrew pronunciations. That's fine. But Hebrew isn't English, and we can't pretend it's English -- especially not impossible English. (Yes, some sources do that, but the result is gibberish, and we try to avoid gibberish where we can.) The templates are also badly formatted, the symbols are undefined, and the transcriptions fail verification. Add the Hebrew pronunciations if you like, or add the English pronunciations if you can find a source for them. — kwami (talk) 05:20, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Since these respellings follow the web source exactly, you cannot claim they "fail verification." This is not a case of substituting foreign pronunciations with English pronunciations. They are not English words and don't have any "real" English pronunciations, so English phonotactics don't apply. They are merely simulating or approximating Hebrew pronunciations with English letters.

If you think there is a Wikipedia policy against showing foreign pronunciations that a non-linguist can understand, then feel free to show it to me. tahc ^chat 05:34, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

I was unable to find the respellings you're referring to. I could only find sound recordings. Yes, we do not mix languages by giving foreign pronunciations in English respelling: "The respelling key covers only English pronunciation, and should not be used for foreign names or words which have not been assimilated into English" -- see the template description. You mention "pronunciations that a non-linguist can understand", but these fail that test - they're nearly unintelligible. And they violate the key that you've linked them to, so they're self-negating. — kwami (talk) 05:42, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Go to www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/ezowr.html. Just above the "Definition" sub-head and below the "Phonetic Spelling" sub-head it says <ay-zore'>. The <'> means that that second syllable has the stress.

They are not "nearly unintelligible", they are extremely accessible. This method is so easy that it is the system used in books for children.

Template instructions do not a Wikipedia policy make. For one reason, anyone could have written that-- and in fact, you already admitted that you did write the template.

What you are really saying is that there is no Wikipedia policy, but you just don't like it. I'll tell you what is a Wikipedia policy... Wikipedia is not censored. That means you cannot remove things just because you or others just don't like it. tahc ^chat 06:04, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

I can remove anything I like, just as you can add anything you like. The key you linked to defines letters differently than the ref, so you were claiming pronunciations at odds with your ref. No, no policy, but long-standing consensus: we use English for English, and Hebrew for Hebrew, not English for Hebrew. Demonstrably false statements have no place in an encyclopedia, even if you have a ref for them. If you want to say the words in Hebrew are pronounced "approximately" as xyz in English, that would be fine, as then you would not be misrepresenting them. But if you do, you would still need to convert the transcription to match the key you're using to explain it, or you would be contradicting your ref. — kwami (talk) 19:41, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

I fixed the transcriptions and warned the reader they are not accurate. The recordings make it clear that their "th" is not our "th", their "aw" is not our "aw", etc. — kwami (talk) 20:09, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your efforts on this. tahc ^chat 20:55, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Clothing for Israelite women

The current version is filled with errors and references that do not support the claim they are meant to. For example, it claims that "The present custom in the Middle East to veil the face originates with Islam.", which is false, since veiling was required under Assyrian law circa 1000BCE. Similarly, it cites Genesis 12:14 and 24:15 to say women did not wear veils, which are, at best, ambiguous. I've cut much of the paragraph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.170.150.58 (talk) 08:38, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

This comes right from "Dress and Ornament, Hebrew". Schaff–Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge. Baker Book House. 1907.

You however have no source for your POV.

Please create a login if you wish to discuss, and most-of-all, find a reliable source. tahc ^chat 04:25, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

Though this contributor didn't attach any sources they actually are correct. See Ahmed, Leila (1992). Women and Gender in Islam. New Haven: Yale University Press. p. 14-15. Chilltherevolutionist (talk) 07:14, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Broken links to Bible passages

To whom it may concern: I was able to fix the broken links in the section Israelite priests by replacing the old links with this one: (e.g. Numbers 19:6 [Go into edit mode to view the template's format]. We need a volunteer to make the same changes in all the other links in the other, respective sections, by copying the template and pasting it in those places where the link is broken, but being careful to also carefully write out the designation of the Biblical passage in the link (example: Exodus, Leviticus, etc., with its specific chapter and verse.Davidbena (talk) 01:01, 11 July 2021 (UTC)