Talk:Benjamin Mkapa Stadium

Requested move 13 February 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Suggested target is ambiguous and I'm not seeing consensus on an alternative. Feel free to launch a new move request for one of the other suggestions below, if you think that consensus is attainable. DrKiernan (talk) 11:23, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

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Benjamin Mkapa National Stadium → National Main Stadium – According to the sources available online, the Tanzanian Government named this stadium as the National Stadium in 2009 source. The official name as shown in images is "National Main Stadium" Panoramio and Xinhuanet. Ali Fazal (talk) 13:36, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose the proposed title should redirect to List of national stadiums. Many nationsls have a "main" "national stadium", so it is generic. National Main Stadium (Tanzania) would serve the purpose here -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 04:16, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
• Comment I'd like to suggest National Stadium (Tanzania) instead. Ali Fazal (talk) 13:17, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
• Move to Tanzania National Main Stadium - I dispute the argument by 70.51.200.101 that "many nationalities have a main national stadium" - maybe so, but none of them actually use the title "National Main Stadium". But, that being said, both the images provided by the nom have the word Tanzania clearly prefixed on the front, so that would appear to be the most common name.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:47, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. The rationale is completely invalid. Read WP:AT or the explanation at WP:official names. No case to answer. Andrewa (talk) 12:08, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

@Andrewa:, what do you mean by saying that the rationale is invalid? That's exactly why i initiated this request. This confirms that the article's title is incorrect. Not a single source in the article can confirm that this stadium is named after Mkapa. Ali Fazal (talk) 13:43, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

I mean that the rationale does not relate in any way to WP:AT, the official Wikipedia policy on which our article titles are based, and which all contributors are urged to read before contributing to article title discussions, see the instructions at WP:RM, the header box to this discussion, and many other places including of course my "vote" above, all of which link to the policy.

The link which you give above is almost irrelevant, but not quite. It falls far, far short of establishing that the article's title is incorrect, as you claim. This particular mistake, on which this RM is also apparently based, is so common that there's an essay specifically addressing it, WP:official names, to which I also linked above and urged you to read.

Have you any comments on either the essay or the policy? Is there any reason that they should both be ignored in this particular case?

The claim that Not a single source in the article can confirm that this stadium is named after Mkapa is relevant, but only as a starting point. Have you looked for other sources? It would be surprising if there were none at all that used this name... the idea of naming the article as it is came from somewhere! What is its most common name in reliable English sources? Those are the sort of questions that we need to ask and answer, in order to justify renaming the article. And again, both the policy and the essay make this quite clear, in my opinion. Andrewa (talk) 18:09, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the above links. As per WP:Common names; i suggest the generic title National Stadium (Tanzania) instead. The official website of the Tanzanian Premier League does not refer to the stadium by its current name (source). Plus, an article that was published today in The Guardian (Tanzania) newspaper refers to it as the national stadium (source). The first reference that is cited in the article refers to the stadium as National Main Stadium; however, on its individual page, Mkapa's name is mentioned - i therefore stand (partly) corrected as this link was not the one cited. I still believe that the common name i.e. National Stadium (Tanzania) be used. Ali Fazal (talk) 18:51, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, when I did the most elementary Google search on "Benjamin Mkapa National Stadium" -Wikipedia [1] I got 219,000 ghits, the first was an internal link to Google but the second was to http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/africa/tanzania/dar_es_salaam_mkapa.shtml which seems to be a reliable source. So the current name is certainly used. National stadium is more concise but needs disambiguation of course. The obvious natural disambiguation is the current name. Please read those links, noting particularly the one that says in part If it exists, choose an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title. That seems to fit this case exactly, does it not? Andrewa (talk) 00:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose since the refence cited in support calls it Main National Stadium, not National Main Stadium. Better to leave it until there's a clear new name in use. 66.235.50.168 (talk) 06:06, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 25 March 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Unopposed request. Number 57 17:30, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

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Benjamin Mkapa National Stadium → National Stadium (Tanzania) – I suggest we move the article to the generic title as it's the most appropriate common name. The current title is in fact inaccurate and potentially misleading as seen on these images: Panoramio and Xinhuanet. Plus, the Guardian newspaper of Tanzania recently referred to it as such (source). The Tanzanian Premier League also refers to it as the National Stadium on its website. Ali Fazal (talk) 11:35, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

• Support - as nominator. Ali Fazal (talk) 11:35, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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