Talk:Bayreuth Circle

"student essay"???

"Thus Hitler himself admitted: `It was Cosima Wagner's merit to have created the link between Bayreuth and National Socialism'. It was the Bayreuth circle which raised Wagner's message to the status of gospel, manoeuvring his ideas into a Germanic-Christian doctrine of salvation." Hitler and Wagner, History Review; 12/1/1998 (Student essay by Jayne Rosefield, from the site of Joseph McNair, professor at Miami-Dade Community College).

This should be deleted. Can't we do better than a student essay from a community college? At the very least the Hitler "quote" must be referenced and verified. I have read most everything in English on this subject and I've never seen this one. Cosima Wagner was quite aged and frail when Hitler first visited Bayreuth in 1923. I don't recall that they ever met. Perhaps the student means Winifried Wagner. At any rate the entire passage is extremely tenuous.--Montestone 15:15, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

OOOps, sorry. I was skimming. I see now that the above is given as a BAD example. But one can find many as bad or worse in the published 'scholarly' accounts. I'll give it some thought.--Montestone 15:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

"Only with timely support from the Bayreuth circle, especially Houston S. Chamberlain, Winifred Wagner, and henchmen like Dietrich Eckhart in the Thule Society, could the unimpressive Hitler assume the self- then public image of a Wotan/Siegfried figure, complete with telling nickname: "Wolf."" Crying “Wolf”? A Review Essay on Recent Wagner Literature David B. Dennis, professor at Loyola University, German Studies Review, February 2001

I think this leaves the impression that these are Professor Dennis' beliefs, when in fact he is merely sumarizing the work of Johacim Köhler in "Wagner's Hitler", which he apparently holds in low regard. Professor Dennis might appreciate a clarification. Best, MonteMontestone 16:07, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

edited accordingly.Smerus 21:14, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Assessment comment

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==Rating by Richard Wagner Project== Start class (low end), falling under the Quality Scale definition "moderately useful but still obviously far from definitive" . Assessment is not the place to question the content of the article, however it is controversial and for that reason needs to be meticulously referenced. Also the article is not well structured or particularly easy for a non-specialist to read. --Kleinzach 05:22, 17 September 2007 (UTC) Start class (low end), indeed. It is actually difficult to avoid commenting on the content, which is thin. Reads like an essay rather than an encyclopedia article, contains phrases such as "a name applied by some writers", "has been associated by some writers", "supposed Bayreuth Circle" (rather as if it's arguing for the speedy deletion of the article). It doesn't help that one of the three specifically cited references is a student essay, either. If it really is a viable article, it needs to be completely rewritten. The AfD discussion is a depressing read, too. --GuillaumeTell 21:13, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 00:40, 26 September 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 09:15, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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