Talk:Battle of Beecher Island

Untitled

++Lar: t/c 15:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Flags

Native American tribal flags that were not in use at the time of the battle may not be included in the article, as per WP:MOSFLAG. Sensei48 (talk) 07:05, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Victory?

After reading and studying this battle for a couple of days, I saw that it was marked as a victory for the U.S. Army. I was surprised by this. Although the Northern Cheyenee lost Roman Nose and unknown number of warriors, the Army was only saved when the relief units arrived. That certainly doesn't characterize a victory in my mind. I think "inconclusive" might be more accurate. — btphelps ^{(talk) (contribs)} 06:39, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, I would politely disagree. At the close of the combat, the field belonged to the cavalry, and that traditionally constitutes a victory. The fact that reinforcements (relief column) arrived to cement the holding of the field does not negate the idea of a final victory. By way of comparison, Napoleon had the allied coalition in a defensive position at Waterloo and seemed to be on the verge of a breakthrough through the allied forces - until Blucher's Prussians arrived, flanked him, and turned the battle. The French army retreated in disorder. The final possession of the field and the retreat of the enemy are both what constitutes victory, and by that metric, the cavalry won a definite if not decisive victory at Beecher Island.

BTW - I think much of your rewrite and your sourcing are excellent. regards Sensei48 (talk) 07:16, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

If that's the definition of victory, so be it. Thanks for your kinds words about my contribution and sourcing. After all, writing without sources is the modern equivalent of writing on the bathroom wall. — btphelps ^{(talk) (contribs)} 21:52, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

A Pyrrhic victory, is still a victory to many. Jrcrin001 (talk) 02:02, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

There is also evidence that the Cheyenne were in fact falling back from the area before relief forces arrived if memory serves. If I get some time, I'll work on adding to this article. Some very important sources are missing, and it doesn't give a good picture of either Forsyth's actual force or the intent behind the expedition.Intothatdarkness (talk) 15:51, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Glad to see some interest in fleshing that out and adding sources! Hope you get the time to do so soon. regards, Sensei48 (talk) 18:41, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

not Sheridan, CO but the abandoned Sheridan, KS

The link in the article refrences Sheridan, CO as being near Ft. Wallace. Sheridan is a southern suburb of Denver. Should this reference be to Sheridan Lake instead? Thank you for putting this article together - very well done.

-jsg

You are right -- the city of Sheridan, Colorado is absolutely irrelevant. As it happens, the town of Sheridan Lake, Colorado is also the wrong reference, although it is closer than Sheridan, Colorado.

No, the correct reference is to Sheridan, Kansas, which was the western terminus of the Kansas Pacific Railroad at the time of the Battle of Beecher Island, but was abandoned after the railroad was extended west of that site. I have fixed the article now. Paul (talk) 20:28, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Sigmund Schlesinger

One of the US soldiers at this battle was a Jewish immigrant from Czechoslovakia, named Sigmund Schlesinger. He had arrived as an immigrant in 1865, only 16 years old, and took a job with the Union Pacific Railroad. When Forsyth was gathering his scouts, Schlesinger signed up, despite having no military experience. Schlesinger would go on to distinguish himself during the battle. Years later, when Rabbi Henry Cohen of Galveston wrote to Forsyth asking how Schlesinger had performed, Forsyth responded:

"He had never been in action prior to our fight with the Indians and throughout the whole engagement which was one of the hardest, if not the very hardest, ever fought on the Western plains, he behaved with great courage, cool persistence and a dogged determination that won my unstinted admiration as well as that of his comrades, many of whom had seen service throughout the War of Rebellion on one side or the other. I can accord him no higher praise than that he was the equal in many courage, steady and persistent devotion to duty and unswerving and tenacious pluck of any man in my command. It is a real pleasure to state this fact. I especially mention the pluck and endurance of this young man of Israel and speak of him as a worthy descendant of King David."

I have four sources for this and several more details about Schlesinger at the battle. I think the information is interesting enough to warrant being on Wikipedia. My question is twofold. Firstly, should I create a new article for Schlesinger, or should I add a new section to this article? Secondly, if the latter, should I call the section just "Sigmund Schlesinger", or something else? I am a novice at editing Wikipedia articles, and would like advice.

Thank you! Yaitz331 (talk) 20:51, 13 January 2022 (UTC)