Talk:Bastarnae

2 articles

There seems to be 2 articles on the Bastarnae. The other article is spelled "Basternae". Maybe someone can combine the articles? (I accidentally forgot to sign in before starting this post, then signed in and continued it.)

Fixed!--Wiglaf 06:20, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Celtic or Germanic?

The Bastarnae were Celts, not Germanic. The Romans used "German" as a geographical, not ethnic term, and the confusion of the Bastarnae with Germanic tribes dates from that time. See Colin McEvedy, Atlas of Ancient History, p50.

07:19, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

Green 2000, Language and History in the Early Germanic World, states that they were East Germanic without mentioning any Celtic or other identifications. Jacob Haller 02:47, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Conliffe 1997, The Ancient Celts, characterizes them as "probably of Germanic origin". From his account, it seems clear that they were different from the "classical" eastern Celts/Galatae, though this of course does not in itself rule out the possibility of them being linguistically Celtic. 85.8.12.78 21:21, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget that Vandals (Lugians) were also Celts originally. They were Germanized during the last centuries BC. For the Bastarni, something similar may be valid. Centrum99 (talk) 17:04, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Putting aside the fact that some modern scholarns don't even accept that "germanism" (its non-linguistic aspects) could be already defined at such an early date, any ethnogenesis or migration theory needs serious refererences. This article is a rather a good one but it lacks of them. This absence of proper citations needs to be fixed. For instance, take a look at the paragraph on etymology. A lot of good stuff but entirely unreferenced. In its current form looks much like original research. Dipa1965 (talk) 21:16, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Slavs on the Danube?

they were among the first Germanic tribes to come into contact with the ancient world and the Slavs

Um, the Slavs were on the Danube in 200BC?? --203.52.130.138 03:48, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

There is no ambiguity there. The Bastarnae, originated from the land between the Oder and Vistula rivers, crossed the Slavic settled areas of actual Western Ukraine, before settling inside the area of Siret and Prut rivers (central Moldova, actually in eastern Romania). Transsylvanian

This article was way too ambiguous. Esp. the second paragraph. I tried to fix it removing pronounds, adding missing proper nouns and chopping up run on sentences. -David

Can someone quote the inscription CIG II 2058 that judges about the presence of Bastarni around the Black Sea before 200 BC? On what is the date "230 BC" based on? Is it reliable? Centrum99 (talk) 17:06, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Bastarnae and bastards

I vaguely recall reading somewhere (commentary on Tacitus?) that the word 'bastard' came from the name of this tribe, as they did not differentiate between illegitimate and legitimate children for the purpose of inheritance. Is there any truth to this and if so, anyone have a reference?radek 02:51, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

The Bastarnae intermarried extensively with local Dacians and (near the Danube Delta) with the Sarmatians. So, at the time of the arrival of Goths, most of the tribe was either assimilated by local large populations or mixed-blood. So, the theory regarding the word "bastard" could be true. Transsylvanian

Germany

Why on earth is this part of Wikiproject Germany? Jacob Haller 08:08, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I share the same question. I would immediately remove it if I was sure there were no serious objections (who knows?). Dipa1965 (talk) 20:52, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Cernihov

There is no proof that thay have any connection with Cernihov or that Cernihov it's associated with slavs. Especially because Cernihov starts much earlier then any historical reference to slavs. Kosmic 10:34, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Rediculous reasoning. No proof according to whom ? You? A large number of published historians would disagree with you- they connect the proto-Slavs as one of the peoples of the Chenykov culture, especially given that one of the settlement types found here- the semi-subterranean type- are 'typical' of Slavic dwelling which occur over a much larger area in the 6th century. In the Chernykoc zone is also probably where Gothic and Sarmatian (Iranic) loan-words entered Slavic Hxseek (talk) 09:47, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Dacians as Slavs, Costoboci uncertain on the Roman Empire Map?

Dacians are marked with the same color as Slavs which is completely incorrect and unfortunate. While Costoboci and Carpi, considered by most historians as Dacian, are in a blue/uncertain color. While Bastarnae who are a Celtic-Germanic mix with possible Dacian elements is marked as Germanic for sure. This is raising serious questions about the map and its neutrality. I suggest at least a distinct Dacian color and section in the legend. The map is here: commons:File:Roman Empire 125.png and here commons:File:Roman Empire 125.svg. Note that util November 19, 2010, Dacians were depicted using a proper, different color. Something dubious happened at that time. --Codrin.B (talk) 22:08, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments from GOCE review

Hi,

I have recently completed a requested copy edit of this article. I hope that it helps the article overall and I apologize for any errors I might have missed or introduced. While I was working I noticed a few things that exceeded the scope of my copy edits:

1. The "Ancient sources" section did not provide any context for the quotes, some of which were repeated or referenced in later sections. I would recommend removing this section entirely and using quotes in context where appropriate.

2. The article makes reference to the post-Roman, bur pre-modern historical regions of Moldavia and Bessarabia. I wonder if it might be more convenient to our readers to refer to modern countries instead.

3. The final parenthetical at the end of the "Germanic" subsection is confusing to me. It seems that there is a word missing after "classifies", possibly "Bastarnae." Even if that is correct, the sentence is still not completely clear: what was the difference in how the two groups were classified and why is it important?

Regards, Tdslk (talk) 03:00, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Dio

It is possible that the Roman term basterna, denoting a type of wagon or litter, is derived from the name of this people (or, if it is an exonym, that the name of the people is derived from it) who were known, like many Germanic tribes, to travel with a wagon train for their families.

However I cannot find a mention of basternas or Bastarnae in Dio LI.24.4. Am I searching wrong? (I don't speak Greek, but even thus I find no similar word.) --Error (talk) 22:23, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Original research on behalf of the editor perhaps? Dio uses the word ἁμαξῶν for "wagon" in the original Greek, and it might be possible that the editor based their comment on a Latin translation of Dio that glosses ἁμαξῶν as "basterna" and made the connection between the two independently. Dio LI.24.3 and other passages from the preceding and proceeding chapters refer to the Bastarnae as Βασταρνῶν, but I don't see any direct attempts on Dio's behalf to tie their etymology to a specific type of Roman wagon. Nebudjet (talk) 20:18, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

References

Cotto, Clondicus, Teutagonus

"The three names of Bastarnae leaders found in ancient sources are of Celtic origin: Cotto, Clondicus and Teutagonus" Are they? Cottus indeed looks like the proto-Celtic word for "old" *kotto- found in Cornish and Irish coth. The other two, though are doubtful: PIE *tewt- could be Celtic, but it also could be Illyrian or Baltic, or even Germanic. It's not a root which necessarily indicates any filiation. As for Batty's citation of Klondyke "placenames in Wales and Scotland" for the Celticity of Clondicus, this frankly looks like a bit of a 'schoolboy' error: they are modern creations, obviously named after Klondike, Yukon. Paul S (talk) 10:55, 9 November 2020 (UTC)