Talk:Australian wine

Structure proposal

• Intro
• Industry history
  • A history of innovation
• Major regions
• International reception

Slapping the FA badge on this would be fantastic, but there's always a risk of it becoming a tourist pamphlet. I'll try a rewrite during the week. Hide&Reason 03:26, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Wine regions

Does anyone know of an NPOV definition of major wine regions, or should we list them all from here? --Scott Davis ^Talk 09:25, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I think a coverage map would work well here. What defines a wine region anyway? Vineyards? Wineries? -- Longhair 09:35, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

They're defined by law. Regulations under the AWBC Act I think. See Register of Protected Names for details. --Scott Davis ^Talk 12:29, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that Scott. I've learned a great deal about wine from that link above. There's also an excellent coverage map linked from your reference above if somebody is capable of reproducing one just like it. -- Longhair 12:35, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

The act itself is at [1]. I'm not sure who makes maps these days. Donama made a few, I think, but she hasn't been editing much lately. --Scott Davis ^Talk 12:56, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

After seeing some excellent coverage maps from User:Froggydarb, such as this one, I've placed a request on their talk page to see if we can get something similar for this article. -- Longhair 03:01, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Froggydarb has agreed to help us out. I've asked for a simple coverage map detailing the areas where wine is produced, bascially replicating what's already online at the link above, but if I've left anything out, feel free to correct me. -- Longhair 03:14, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

How's this coverage map look by Froggydarb? I've requested a legend be added but it's looking pretty good I think. -- Longhair 01:10, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

If possible, adding another line delimiting the boundary of South Eastern Australia would be good too, and adding the two Queensland regions at List of wine producing regions#Australia are missing, too. No other complaints from me. Thanks. --Scott Davis ^Talk 04:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I've posted sample two over to the right for approval. -- Longhair 04:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

The Queensland regions probably don't matter too much as the map is zones, although they would be interesting. I would like to see the South Eastern Australia line added if possible, as it's the G.I. on Jacob's Creek. Otherwise, the map looks good. --Scott Davis ^Talk 13:55, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I can easily make a line separating south eastern Aus from the rest, but if I go and outline all of Tassie and the NSW and Vic coastline it looks a bit dodgey. Is that alright? -- Froggydarb ^croak 09:39, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Just the two straight lines is all I care about - hang them off the edge of the coastline if you like, to signify that islands (including Tasmania) are included. I don't think that outlining the coastlines is actually helpful for displaying the definitio, anyway. Thanks. --Scott Davis ^Talk 15:10, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

There we go. -- Froggydarb ^croak 08:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Improvements

So, how can we make this article better than simply an overview of the wine regions? What are some good angles to look at? (Asks someone who knows basically nothing about wine.) (Also, we're listing Wine for Dummies as a resource? Cringe!) --pfctdayelise (translate?) 05:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, one way that "someone who knows basically nothing about wine" can help is to list the questions that you don't know, and can't find the answers for. Then someone who does know can help add the info. You can also help with format, grammar etc --Scott Davis ^Talk 03:49, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, OK, these are things I guess I would like to see addressed in the article. Are there any differences to other wines/wine industries (esp European) aside from the fact of location? Probably there are. Has Australia's geography influenced how our wine industry has developed, choice of grapes, etc? How difficult has it been to overcome the cultural cringe and how has acceptance of Australian wine evolved overseas? It seems to me the industry has really exploded only recently. Why was that? Was it just a bandwagon thing that led to the glut in overproduction? Has the expansion of the wine industry influenced Australian alcohol consumption, eg cut into beer consumption? I would like to see more about the industry and regions instead of just lists of links, like... what led to those areas becoming wine regions? Are some regions just piggybacking off the popularity of others? Has wine growing signifcantly changed the farming landscape in any of these areas? (ie mass switches to grapes) For the industry, what is the breakdown like? Is it virtually monopolised by a few big players, like say the Australian grocery industry, or are there lots of small family-type operations? How has that/is that changing, is there a move to consolidation? Do wine growers work together to promote their region or is it very competitive? Is the industry still expanding? --pfctdayelise (translate?) 07:23, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

• About the Wine brands and Wine Companies sections, they seem to be related. Would it look better to have them flow on from eachother. Perhaps after the regions section? Jen Powell-Psmith 10:49, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
• May I suggest a section on the huge upswing in consumption during the 1970s when wine connoisseurship became trendy among Australia's emerging educated urban middle class. One bought a flagon of 'rough red' to the party, and that was a badge of belonging. One could almost date the start of this consumption 'spike' from the election in Dec. 1972 of the Whitlam Government, ('It's Time'); the advent of 'Nation Review'; the massive number of coffee-table wine-guides written by people like Len Evans; 'wine columns' starting up in newspapers etc etc. I would do this myself if I was not swamped with other writing projects. Bluedawe 22:36, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Surely there are more than 2000 wineries in OZ? https://www.wine-searcher.com/biz/producers/australia has over 5000. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.3.85.116 (talk) 03:52, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

History

Woops. I'm very new to wiki ( this is my 2nd day) and I wasn't aware of the discussion page. I'm afraid I just rolled up my sleeves and started adding to the page. Am slapping own wrist hard now. I have a history background and a strong interest in wine so I'm happy to help fill out the history section. The wine industry in Australia has been strong for many many years, particularly my local (SA) area, but the recent growth has been in new and expanding regions. I am happy to do a bit more research on this side of things and work on it. I also added a little blurb about Tasmanian wine (they're very tasty!) inthe regions section.

I would also suggest it is worth mentioning that although the big companies have the lions share of most the market, there are hundred of smaller winemakers who produce very high quality wine. I'm not sure where you would fit this in. It would be good to mention a few, but then how many do you mention and how do you choose which ones to mention?

Just my thoughts for what they're worth. Currently having a sip of Grant Burge port to help me think. Jen Powell-Psmith 13:49, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. :) Don't worry, being BOLD is encouraged! --pfctdayelise (translate?) 14:44, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

In the history section, it is mentioned that a certain winery won a medal in Paris in 1889, then stating that this was BEFORE the Phylloxera catastrophe. In the article on Phylloxera, is says that 40% of france's vines were devestated in 15 years from late 1850's to mid 1870's. There's still another 15 years to 1889 when the mentioned award was given. I'd call it a sort of peacock-sentence, as it is obviously there to inflate Australias wine pedigree plus is factually wrong (or at least conflicting with the sources article on Great French Wine Blight. I'll correct it soon.--Nwinther (talk) 08:41, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Phylloxera did not come out in Australia at the same time as France. SA vineyards were large unaffected, which is why that state became the principal wine producer. Large swathes of vineyards in SE Victoria were ripped out. The Prussian immigrants were principally beer brewers (King Charles outlawing alcohol), and were not important in wine production. The Seppelt and Orlando families were aristocratic investors in wine from Germany, not peasants.101.178.163.92 (talk) 04:21, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Pop Culture

This really needs a reference to the infamous Monty Python sketch. It can't be coincidence that Australian wine only started entering general awareness after Monty Python. Rhialto 06:56, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

If a pop culture section is to be added can include Barry Humphries skit as: Sir Les Patterson 'Chardonay' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRcnT-2zo9s SpringSummerAutumn (talk) 17:47, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Attribution note

Some of the content in the GSM blend section is from the merged stub GSM (wine). Agne^Cheese/^Wine 02:19, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

climate change

would there be any interest in adding a section regarding potential effects on the industry of long term climate change? I have read that this may be fundamental in the long term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erehwon36 (talk • contribs) 16:48, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Industry breakdown

• The Question above: "For the industry, what is the breakdown like? Is it virtually monopolized by a few big players, like say the Australian grocery industry, or are there lots of small family-type operations? How has that/is that changing, is there a move to consolidation? Do wine growers work together to promote their region or is it very competitive? Is the industry still expanding?"

Would be worthwhile showing something about separation of Australian wine industry players some of the giant, publicly listed multinational corporations are: Foster's Group, Constellation Wines Australia, Lion Nathan, Pernod Ricard Pacific - a lot of the bigger corporations tend to focus on the cheap commodity end of the market - usually with lower quality grapes and faster lower quality mass production methods. For example using large roto fermenters opposed to quality methods such as using open-top fermenters for red wines, not cooling grapes sufficiently, faster hotter fermtation means more harsher alcohols in wine called Congeners, not separating/sorting good berries from rotten or bad berries with technology such as vibrating grape sorting tables, using chemical additives to compensate for what may be lacking naturally in the wine, over-extraction of grapes, using commercial yeast opposed to natural yeast, machine harvesting opposed to hand picking to make sure berries skins are not broken, etc.. (with a few exceptions ie: as part of the Foster's Group portfolio they also own Penfolds)

Another major player Casella Wines Pty Ltd owned by The Casella family - which owns (Yellow Tail), and their premium label Casella Wines based in NSW - huge exporter of Australian wine

I think it's important to make a distinction between large multi-nationals and family or other wine producers that often have more of a focus on higher quality/smaller production wines. For example Margaret River produces just 3% of Australia's total of grape production, but produces over 20% of Australia's premium wine market. Although the Swan valley in Western Australia has higher production for Western Australia but has certian environmental factors that make it difficult to grow high quality grapes, ie: mostly flat land with particular types of soils that don't allow proper drainage when it rains, also it is the hottest wine growing region in Australia. So some areas for Grape production offer higher risk, lower quality, and some favor quality for wine production ie: like France has the Regional wine classification's Grand Cru, Premier Cru, Village etc... Although Australia has no formal designations like France there have been mentions by viticultural scientists of areas that possibly warrant higher quality production and areas that simply are not ideal areas for viticulture either due to climate, soil quality, moisture retension, disease risks, or other factors. SpringSummerAutumn (talk) 19:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Government spending/Health effects

I've salvaged some info from a recent edit that breached WP:NPOV policy and was quite rightly reverted. But the remnants are still problematic. What do you think, JarrahTree? Worth keeping any of it? Meticulo (talk) 14:15, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

anything looked at can kill you - it is the fate of wikipedia that some years ago we had an editor trying every type of animal attack here in the australian project - it was every fluffy animal included... To the recent editor, I had suggested that any oz wine alcohol health issue death risk could perhaps have gone into a separate article - the way health effects of tobacco is separated from the main article. The argument for organic wines is the ingredients in conventional wine can be harmful. health effects of wine - might already exist elsewhere outside of the oz-stryian context... maybe... have another one .. hic... JarrahTree 14:22, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Shiraz

In the article it states, correctly, that "Shiraz" is "Syrah" spoken with an Australian accent. However it goes on to say, "its dramatic commercial success has led many Syrah producers around the world to label their wine Shiraz." Aside from USA wineries or one or two small poor quality producers, I have never seen non-Australian wine labelled Shiraz. I'm minded to amend that second clause unless someone can name a mainstream non-Australian, non-US winery that calls its product Shiraz.OrewaTel (talk) 04:50, 30 July 2019 (UTC)