Talk:Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities

Formatting

Whats the deal with the overlapping pictures? Can this be fixed?--Samwisep86 09:16, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

US only

This association is limited to the US? There is a Jesuit college, Ateneo de Manila, in the Philippines.--Jondel 08:45, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yes, this particular association is limited to the United States. --Gerald Farinas 21:15, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

University photos, etc

138.16.37.78 and 128.148.5.195, both Brown University IP addresses, have made the same unsubstantiated edit. At issue is the word "flagship" in the caption of the Boston College picture. Given that Boston College is the only Jesuit theologate among the AJCU's members and given that it has the largest community of Jesuits of any insitution in the world, the term "flagship" would seem to be appropriate. --Invincoli 03:22, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with the BC description; however, I do think that the BC photograph should be below the official logo of the AJCU, and I will, after a few days notice, switch the placement. I think we should also add photos from some of the other universities. Please feel free to comment. SCUMATT 02:05, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree that there should be images of the other schools. Trouble is, most of the schools' articles have no images. Those that do often lack proper documentation and are therefore not I addedfair use. the ones I could find. --24.63.125.78 20:11, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the addition of other photos. I believe the objection to Boston College as the "flagship" is it seems to so abitrary. One could argue Georgetown for instance has better academics or that Santa Clara University preserves the Jesuit ideals best. I do not see the need to inlude such subjective measures that merely serves to highlight one institution.. Perhaps we shoudl just stick with the objective facts, such as BC including a large jesuit community 23:33, 11 January 2006

BC is the flagship precisely because it has the largest Jesuit community, the only Jesuit theologate, the largest theological library, the biggest endowment, etc, etc of all the Jesuit schools. The criteria you mention are not NPOV. Academic reputation and faithfulness to Jesuit ideals are debatable. Quantitative data are not. 128.197.130.193 04:29, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

While, as noted before, I'm not really that concerned whether we call Boston College the flagship or not, since it is being made an issue, I'll add a few comments. I think that there is quantitative data to support either Georgetown or BC for that position. BC has a bigger endowment and a theologate, but Georgetown has a better reputation (law, undergrad, and foreign policy) and is more selective. At the moment, to assert so boldly that one is the "flagship" seems a little too biased for an encyclopedia article. No doubt, each school will claim the position in its own literature and bring to the fore its strong points. SCUMATT 04:51, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

My $0.02: I don't think it's biased to call a spade a spade. If you have "quantitative data to support either," support it. Reputation and selectivity are pretty mushy for "quantitative data" though --24.63.125.78 22:23, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I would agree that academic reputation not a NPOV. However, the selection of quantitative data is just as subjective. What data one chooses to use demonstrates bias. As the description of NPOV states, a few single objective facts do not constitute objectivity alone. As the previous poster has stated, there are many quanitative measures in which other Jesuit Universities would be be ranked higher. I agree with the previous poster that "flagship" is too biased. The fact that the same designation is given on the BC entry by the same poster does not bolster a NPOV [ For the sake of full disclosure, it shoudl be know I altered the BC article to remove the flagship designation; it however has been reinstated]

I don't think "ranking" (which is an inherent POV) is the issue here. Again, if you have "many quantitative measures" to support your claim, let's hear them. --24.63.125.78 22:23, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Apparently my use of the world "ranking" was unclear. I was merely refering to any sort of list, but I do not want argue over word usage. I believe if one wishes to add a claim such as "flagship," it is the charge of that individual to seek out other data. Once again this goes to the issue of selective use of objective data. Nonetheless, if I have time I may attempt to refute your claim (honestly, I may not since I do not want to squabble over this forever). Also, a point of clarification, what are you considering a Theologate ? Are you talking about Jesuit schools of theology? If so there are only two. One in California and one in Cambridge (Weston). Currently Weston has is seperate from BC (though there is speak of a reaffliation the two). At this time therefore, I would not use BC's having a theologate to support your claim.(This unsigned comment added by 24.23.185.88 at 15:01, 13 January 2006)

No, the onus should be on whoever removed it to explain why it was removed. To my knowledge, no other university makes this claim. -140.247.125.157 02:41, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

As a Chicagoan, I must point out that the Water Tower is not a Loyola building; it is near a Loyola building. I suggest someone find a picture of Loyola's Rogers Park campus to post instead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.182.1.4 (talk) 17:07, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Flagship Claim

(I thought that I'd add a specific subheading for this, since the argument is far from settled)

This is getting ridiculous. Now we have photographs of two institutions claiming to be "arguably" the flagship of the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities. Holy Cross, BC, and Georgetown are all very good schools. Can't we decide to describe them as such and drop any claims to flagship status? I don't think it matters which one claims to be the best - determining quality is far too subjective. Besides we should be content, in the "Catholic Jesuit tradition," to be slightly more humble. Personally, I think it looks pretty bad to have all these claims as to which institution is the best.

Also, in response to those who argue that, in order to remove the word "flagship," we must prove that a school is not the flagship, I suggest that this might be true on the college or university's individual article. On the ASJCU page, which should speak of the Jesuit institutions on a more official and veritable basis, discussion of such a subjective classification should not be brought forth. There are many good Jesuit universities and several that are outstanding. It is certainly the burden of he or she who proposes flagship status to prove the truth of the assertion. In this, no one has succeeded and no one will.

Perhaps we need a vote on the matter over the next month SCUMATT 21:30, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

If the organization itself does not make any such distinction between the schools then there is no reason to say anything about it on the page. There IS NO flagship. Period. No need for a vote because saying anything else would be patently false. If this is an incorrect assessment of the facts by all means please verify any such claim of flagship status. Paul^C/_T+ 23:05, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Paul has it right. The 'flagship' business contains a measure of BC boosterism, and school spirit has its limits. There are things many wonderful things to be said for Boston College -- its extensive academic programs, high-quality student body, scholarly excellence, attention to the Catholic intellectual tradition -- but it's not a flagship anything. Other campuses have their own distinguishing features, such as medical schools, specialized engineering faculties, notable service to mixed populations, and so forth. Each has a worthy history, sometimes older than BC's. The AJCU is a national organization with coast-to-coast reach. Like St. Peter's, LeMoyne, John Carroll, Loyola New Orleans, Gonzaga, Loyola Marymount, and the others, BC is one member of the AJCU. Scgaucho 20:55, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Why are Jesuit schools so disproportionately good in basketball?

I mean really, what's up there? Boston College, Marquette, Georgetown, Gonzaga, St. Joe's, Creighton, Xavier...heck it reads like a set of Sweet 16 picks any given year! And it really is only basketball. The only school in there that is regarded as a football power is Boston College, and its basketball team has at least as much renown. Why are Jesuit school kids so good in basketball?

I think its because we have the God of the Catholics on our side. :P Eclectek ^{C T} 06:07, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Captions

Claims of "academic excellence," "prestige" and other aggrandizing information seems either too subjective or superfluous for the photo captions. The photos' location and size is also random. 24.147.176.128 05:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Pro-choice speakers

The issue of pro-choice speakers giving commencement addresses at Jesuit schools has been a topic of controversy in recent years, and the association's jesuit leaders have publicly backed debated invitations such as President Obama speaking at the universities of Georgetown and Notre Dame. [1] ADM (talk) 11:09, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

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SAT Scores?

Why did a user in the Philippines delete the list of average SAT scores for each institution this past October? That information seems far more important to, for example, the prospective college applicant, than each school's colors. Any chance we can get those back up without them being summarily deleted again? HandsomeSam57 (talk) 19:25, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

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