Talk:Article 7 of the Treaty on European Union

Merge of Article 7 page

Thanks BIL, didn't even know that page existed until you added the tag. I agree with that proposal on the grounds that this one is larger and the title is more clear as to what it is about. Personally, I'm against "Article X of Y" names as it isn't clear what it is about until you've read them.- _J.Logan`^t: 20:17, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm a bit sceptical to merging the other article into this one. An article 7 procedure is not just about suspension from the European Union. --Glentamara (talk) 20:39, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

I think we should merge them. To which article name, I leave open. Note that the Article 7 of the Treaty on European Union contains article 2 in its entirety and discusses it as well.--BIL (talk) 23:20, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

I take your point Glentamara that suspension is just one result of the mechanism, but it is the core of the mechanism (it has no function without it), the topic is clearer with that title and, as BIL points out, it also talks about Article 2. The Commission also calls it "The EU Rule of Law Framework" [1] which we could go for, but considering I've never heard that name said in the media I don't think it is a great choice. It is however better that Article 7 if you'd prefer that over Suspension from _J.Logan`^t: 11:00, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

I don't have a strong opinion on this, but I still think it is wrong to give the impression that article 7 is equivalent to suspension from the EU. The procedure described in article 7(1) introduced by the Treaty of Nice and which the Commission has now initiated does not lead to a suspension, but rather just a political statement. Furthermore, even for the procedure outlined in article 7(2) and 7(3), I'm not sure if "suspension" is the right word. This procedure can indeed lead to a suspension of the voting right in the Council, but it does not under any circumstances lead to a suspension of the EU membership of the country concerned. Article 7 is stating very clearly that all obligations deriving from the EU membership are unaffected by the procedure. So it is not really a suspension (in my opinion). EU laws still apply to a member state subject to the procedure. However, I agree that article xx of yy are bad titles for Wikipedia articles. --Glentamara (talk) 14:06, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Bytheway, one more thing. The "EU rule of law framework" is something different from the article 7 procedure. It is a (new) procedure introduced by the Commission in 2014. It covers much more than just the article 7 procedure, which is sort of the last step of the EU rule of law framework. --Glentamara (talk) 14:08, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

A fair point, well argued. I think what we're looking at is one of two options. Either we cover the Article 7 and pre-Article 7 procedures as separate articles under the titles referenced in the link I put earlier (personally I'm against this as their use is closely interlinked) or we're looking at a totally different formulation for the title than we've otherwise considered that would convey the fact that these articles and procedures concern the protection of and possible sanctioning in relation to violation of EU values by member state governments. But in a more succinct way than I just said there.

Having tried to write a suggestion about dozen times now, I think unless someone proposes something good in the next day or so I#ll just agree with you that we should stick with Article 7 and move all this over to there instead. We'll just have to make clear that some of the procedures aren't actually Article 7, but end up relating to it by virtue of Article 7 being the ultimate enforcement over it.- J.Logan: 14:37, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Great, sounds good to me! Best, --Glentamara (talk) 21:37, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Okay, moved the data over and made it a redirect. If anyone subsequently comes up with a better idea we can discuss and move it then. I'll update links to reflect the move.- J.Logan: 16:27, 29 December 2017 (UTC)