Talk:Almohad–Ayyubid war of 1187–1188

Overlap with Banu Ghaniya invasion of North Africa

Just noting that the events here overlap significantly with the events of Banu Ghaniya invasion of North Africa (currently a stub). These two articles should potentially be merged, or at any rate better coordinated together in the future. R Prazeres (talk) 18:11, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

@R Prazeres I didn't know this article exists, but I agree. I believe it could be improved by adding earlier and later events, which would require changing the title (we should remove "of 1187-1188", it's wrong anyway)TybenFree (talk) 16:27, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, a simpler title might be something like "Ayyubid invasion of Ifriqiya"; there is only one such event/period so the dates are not needed. I'm not sure what a merged article (if appropriate) could be named, so the best thing for now might be to expand both and consider some options along the way. R Prazeres (talk) 17:23, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

After rethinking of it, I agree with that. And I also agree with the title you proposed. We expand both articles separately. TybenFree (talk) 08:41, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I'll consider creating a WP:RM in the future then; or if other involved editors express support before then, I'll risk a bold move. The articles can still be expanded in the meantime. R Prazeres (talk) 21:18, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

@R Prazeres If it's better to merge the two articles, I think "Almohad Reconquest of Ifriqiya" would work well as a title. But I'm still okay with your suggestion too. Tyben^Welcome 22:32, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Contested redirect + merge?

Hi @Skitash, given that the article has been edited significantly by other editors (likely not sockpuppets but this can be verified with CU if needed), the relevant deletion criterion, WP:G5, doesn't seem to apply here (as well as because the original page creator wasn't, as far as I know, banned at the time of creation). Since the deletion is contested, I think the appropriate venue would be WP:AFD (even if a blank-and-redirect is what's preferred).

Given the discussion above, I think the best fate for this article might be some sort of merge with Banu Ghaniya invasion of North Africa (currently a stub), with some of the poorly-sourced material left out, and possibly under a new article name to accomodate the full scope of events (i.e. the Banu Ghaniya incursions and the Ayyubid incursion, which eventually joined forces). Let me know if you like this option. R Prazeres (talk) 21:44, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Greetings. Yes, I reckon that merging the two articles seems like a sensible approach. Prior to this, I wasn't aware of the Banu Ghaniya invasion of North Africa article, but there does appear to be significant overlap between the two. Given its heavy reliance on 19th-century sources, I don't believe this article can effectively stand on its own. Skitash (talk) 22:08, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, the stuff that is based on Baadj 2015 and Eddé 2011 should be alright to build on (and thus perhaps move elsewhere). The other stuff I would indeed leave out; they're not even 19th-century sources, they're 19th-century translations of medieval sources, so very WP:PRIMARY territory. R Prazeres (talk) 22:11, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. Let's move what's salvageable to the Banu Ghaniya invasion of North Africa article. M.Bitton (talk) 15:50, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

While deciding what to do next, there is nothing preventing us from removing everything that is attributed to the primary sources. M.Bitton (talk) 16:44, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your input, and feel free to do any of those things. I also should have noticed earlier: both the Banu Ghaniya and the Sharaf al-Din Qaraqush articles are stubs. So perhaps it would be more important to expand these articles in the short-term, in conjunction with Almohad Caliphate#History as needed. I'm adding a little to Banu Ghaniya right now. I think we can still move content here to Banu Ghaniya invasion of North Africa in the meantime, then revisit it later. R Prazeres (talk) 19:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Great, since we all agree, I'll start merging by redirecting this article to Banu Ghaniya invasion of North Africa. Skitash (talk) 15:49, 18 April 2024 (UTC)