Talk:Inayatullah Khan Mashriqi

May 2006

This page needs an extensive removal of POV, clean-up, formatting and addition of more references. Rama's Arrow 04:09, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

The article does not have any issues. If you have any genuine issue, please provide full details with references. The references must be credible. A person who puts these objectionable tags must provide proof of his/her knowledge on the subject. How do I know whether the person has any knowledge about this personality? How do I know, he/she is not biased? It seems someone is biased towards this personality. Because I have seen articles on this web site with different issues but I do not see any tags. Policy must not be discriminatory and dictatorial. At the end I would say, please do not make up issues.

Scroll down to the references section

you might find something there.

Clean up

I have tried to edit this to comply more closely with usual WP practice. I have written a short introductory section and replaced 8 external links to websites apparently owned by the subject's grandson, with a single link from which the other sites can be reached. I think more work is needed on the article. At present it contains a rather too much in the way of expressions of praise and tributes to Mashriqi and would be better balanced if there were more details of his works and struggles as leader of Khaksars to substantiate the tributes. I also think it would be useful to introduce some other references to show the wider perspective in which his work is held rather than to rely mainly on his grandson's websites and books, although it is clear that he has assembled a great deal of information about his father working through newspapers and Government archives in Pakistan and London. Op. Deo 15:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

apparently you managed to remove <references /> tag which causes confusion. I have put it in Notes now. pls be careful in future --Islescape 00:44, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

On this occasion it was not me who made the mistake, but an unregistered editor who may not be very familiar with the syntax and editing process. I am rather concerned that the article is still unbalanced lacking detail and with too much emphasis on tributes. I will search out more references to try and obtain a sample of authoritative views independent of the the work of the grandson's websites and works, which are the major references at present. Op. Deo 15:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC).

Reverting edits by 65.110.153.102 because of mistakes on referenced website dedicated to the praise of Mashriqi

I think the anonymous editor at 65.110.153.102 is wrong to rely so heavily as a source on the works and the websites of Mashriqi's grandson Nasim Yousaf. To me these seem designed to only to report things which present Mashriqi in an exessively favourable light. I think, this is managed by Nasim Yousaf, so information removed if it did not match with his views.

My attention was first drawn to this through the description in this article of his academic career. But, I then found the whole of the article has the sound of an exercise in hagiography. Both User:Rama's Arrow and I have called (see above) for a wider range of sources to be consulted. I have found several, but when I try to introduce these to provide a balanced picture from the literature anything that is not fullsom praise of Mashriqi is being removed by 65.110.153.102 and in many cases my sources are also being removed.

After the latest deletions by 65.110.153.102, a careful study of the sources demonstrates clearly to me that there are mistaken quotation of sorces on Yousaf's website. here is what he says on page http://www.allamamashraqi.com/mashraqipraised.html

“Inayatullah Khan of Christ’s College [University of Cambridge], besides gaining First Class in Oriental Languages obtained Honours in Natural Sciences Tripos. He became Wrangler after only two years residence . . .” The Times, London, June 17, 1911

But I have carefully copied the following from that issue of the Times and one can clearly see that the words which are in quotation marks on Yousaf's website have in fact been edited to remove mention of the fact that the Natural Sciences examination result was a third class, and in fact Mashriqi was 27th wrangler, which means that 26 mathemetics students got higher marks than him:

University Intelligence Cambridge, June 16.

The following further tripos lists were issued today:-

.........

Natural Sciences Tripos Pt I

....

Class III

....

Ds Inayat Ullah Khan, Christ's

......

Oriental Languages Tripos

Class I

Ds Inayat Ullah Khan, Christ's

Arabic I, II. Persian I, II.

....

Inayat Ullah Khan, who was bracketed 27th wrangler in 1909, his second year of residence, also today obtained a Third Class in the Natural Sciences Tripos, Part I. He was born on August 28, 1888, and was educated at the Forman College, Lahore, the Government College, Armritsar, and the Punjab University.

Now all this may seem rather pedantic, but look then at the file name in the url of the page quoted above mashraqipraised.html . The choice of the word praised could be saying something about the mindset of the author.

Even more worringly look at the following extracts from a related website http://allama-mashriqi.8m.com/warning.html and draw your own conclusions after reading the whole website.

PUBLIC NOTICE Warning to Anti-Mashriqi Writers and Speakers ..... Mashriqi was one of the greatest statesmen ever born. He extended unrivaled services to the nation. .... Under the circumstances, we, the family of Allama Mashriqi, have no choice left but to issue this warning: anything found to be twisted, concocted, or wrongly associated with Mashriqi or his family shall be liable to a lawsuit for defamation and damages.

I hope 65.110.153.102 can assure us that he is not connected to Yousaf's websites. If he then is he should read Wikipedia:Conflict of interest to understand potential problems others may have with his work. -- Op. Deo 19:38, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Please do not add misleading remarks. There is nothing wrong with quotes. http://www.allamamashraqi.com/mashraqipraised.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.110.153.102 (talk)

He is not known by pen names. No page number is provided for the following information: "but he adopted several pen names: Inayat, Motasin and later Mashraqi, by which is now generally known by M.Aslam Malik,Allama Inayatullah Mashraqi. Before adding pen names, additional sources needs to be checked.

Regarding his appointment as Under Secretary of Education in India, in place of Sir John Anderson, additional sources are listed below:

Allama Inayat Ullah Khan Al-Mashriqi. "Isha’arat" Published by Al- Tazkirah Publication, Ichhra, Lahore, Pakistan pp14

Dr. Mohammad Azmat Ullah “Al-Mashriqi.” Lahore, Pakistan, pp 55.

The Civil & Military Gazette, Lahore August 28, 1963

Thank you Islescape for resolving the issue. Please make sure, people are not adding wrong or misleading information. Once again, thank you. I hope additional sources shall be of help.

Information on Syed Mahmood Scholarship is not available in any source other than M.Aslam Malik,"Allama Inayatullah Mashraqi" page 3. His citation/reference on page 19 is not reliable. He has not given the name of the publication.

Philosophy and photo

This page needs two things:

• a nice photo of Al Mashriqi (with permissions for public domain, of course)
• the true philosophy of Al Mashriqi, his life and works

--Islescape 12:12, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Clarification

Justice Blagden of Bombay High Court refused to accept that assassin was a Khaksar. Justice Blagden’s announced his decision on November 04 1943. All evidences presented to prove that assassin was a Khaksar were rejected by Justice Blagden. According to book titled, "Jinnah Faces An Assassin", attacker was a Muslim Leaguer. The book was authored by Jinnah’s nephew Barrister Akbar Peerbhoy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.110.153.102 (talk • contribs) 02:04, 24 December 2006.

Allama Mashriqi was in jail when Liaquat Ali Khan was murdered. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.110.153.102 (talk • contribs) 01:53, 24 December 2006.

NPOV and copyedit, and a few suggestions, plus name of page?

This page was badly in need of NPOV. I have removed the POV material and copyedited the text and the references. It is not necessary to have a long section of tributes to Mashriqi, so I have trimmed that right down.

At the moment, I feel there is a real lack of information on Mashriqi's role in the Khaksar movement in this article. Clearly, that movement is the main point of interest for a general reader, along with Mashriqi's literary works (which are quite well covered). Could we please have much more and some recognition of the fact that the Khaksars were controversial? At the moment, it makes very odd reading: lots and lots on what a noble scholar Mashriqi was, and then suddenly he keeps being arrested for no obvious reason. As I understand it, the Khaksars were emphatically a militant organisation, and Mashriqi's activities were controversial.

Another serious issue I think we need to resolve is the name of the page. Bearing in mind Wikipedia's policy against using titles, shouldn't the page be called "Inayatullah Khan al-Mashriqi"? This also extends to terms like "Holy Qur'an", which is specifically singled out for removal in the Manual of Style. -- TinaSparkle 16:42, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Since nobody has objected to the comment about renaming the article, and since Allamah is indeed an honorific, I've just gone done it. - Sitush (talk) 07:29, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Sitush: You have done extensive changes to Allama Mashriqi's page and removed important contents including sources/websites. You have even deleted his title and photos? I would love to read your CV to make sure you qualify to edit respected Allama Mashriqi's page, where can I find it?

I request other UTCs/administrators to look at the amount of deletion Sitush has done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.235.70.242 (talk) 02:58, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Sitush, I want to read your CV. If you have one, you can post it here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.235.70.242 (talk) 20:53, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Is he pro or anti-partition?

From what I'm reading about this man, I can't tell if he was pro-Partition or anti-Partition. He sounds as if he believes in a free united India with rights for all but it is also mentioned in other areas that he is a founding father of Pakistan. Somebody help me in this regard. Afghan Historian 01:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC). He was against the partition and he has reasons for it.

Allama Mashriqi was against the partition of India. Read "FAQ" on the following web site: http://allamamashraqi.com/faqs.html

Rafiq Sabir

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Sabir was not part of the Khaksar movement.124.109.47.105 (talk) 07:07, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

After Justice Blagden's verdict, there is no reason to associate Rafiq Sabir with the Khaksar Movement. He is calling Mashriqi an Islamist terrorists and Fascist Mullah. It is enough to understand the person is working under an agenda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.110.155.53 (talk) 03:54, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Nasim Yousaf

Nasim Yousaf is cited extensively in this article. He is the grandson of Allama Mashriqi and has written a lot of independently published works on his relation, while continuing his "day job" as an exporter of textiles etc. Unfortunately, due to his family connection and also the clearly hagiographic nature of his various websites etc, there seems to me to be little chance that he qualifies as a reliable source. - Sitush (talk) 07:19, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Sitush, your argument about Nasim Yousaf is flimsy and makes no sense. Besides many well researched books, his articles are published in academic journals. You have ignored his books and articles that are extremely important for researchers. You did not even bother to referenced them on the Allama Mashriqi's page. Sadly, you have totally discredited (for your own reasons) a reputable historian and deleted a page on him. By taking these steps and making extensive changes/deletion, I am sorry to say, you are coming across as a highly biased person against him and his grandfather. Yousaf comes from a highly respected family and I can assure you people rely more on him than anyone else. I hope you will not find my comments offensive. I expect you to be neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.235.70.242 (talk) 04:16, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Sitush, I knew you will not answer my questions. I know Allama Mashriqi was a great leader and millions around the world like him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.235.70.242 (talk) 20:48, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)

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Indian nationality

@Arslan-San: Regarding your edit and the accompanying comment, if he wasn't Indian before there even was such a thing as Pakistan in 1947, then what was he? Largoplazo (talk) 17:58, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

He died as a Pakistani citizen, the "British India" tag being no more operative from 47 onward, I've barely seen an Indian public figure described as "a British Indian X and later Indian X", the British Indian empire was that, an empire, and not a nationality in the modern sense. Arslan-San 19:06, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Does your comment about Indian not being "a nationality in the modern sense" mean that you object to the openings of such articles as Gopal Krishna Gokhale (died 1915) ("... was an Indian political leader and a social reformer ...") and Swami Vivekananda (died 1902) ("... was an Indian Hindu monk, ...")? Largoplazo (talk) 20:48, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Individuals were certainly called Indians before 1947 and their passport identified themselves as Indian. India as a nation was a founding member of the League of Nations in 1920, a participating nation in the Summer Olympics in 1900, 1920, 1928, 1932, and 1936, and a founding member of the United Nations in San Francisco in 1945. Don't peddle revisionist history here. Your edit has been reverted. See WP:RGW. Shashank5988 (talk) 20:58, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

this dude and Hitler

I feel like the fact that this dude may have inspired Hitler- and bragged about it- ought to be dealt with more heavily on his page.

I was astounded when he [Hitler] told me that he knew about my Tazkirah. The news flabbergasted me…I found him very congenial and piercing. He discussed Islamic Jihad with me in details. In 1930 I sent him my Isharat concerning the Khaksar movement with a picture of a spade-bearer Khaksar at the end of that book. In 1933 he started his Spade Movement.¹⁶

Mashriqi also wrote this independent summary of his 1926 encounter with Hitler on May 31, 1935:

If I had known that this was the very man who was to become Germany's savior I would have fallen around Hitler's neck, but on the occasion I was engaged in small talk and tried to find out what he understood about Germany's weakness at the time. Professor [Weil, the host] said, introducing Hitler to me: “This is also a very important man, an activist from the Worker's Party.” We shook hands and Hitler said, pointing to a book that was lying on the table: “I had a chance to read your al-Tazkirah.” Little did I understand at that time, what should have been clear to me when he said these words! The astonishing similarities—or shall we say the unintentional similarity between two great minds—between Hitler's great book and the teachings of my Tazkirah and Isharat embolden me, because the fifteen years of “struggle” of the author [Hitler] of “My Struggle” [Mein Kampf] have now actually led his nation back to success. But only after leading his nation to the intended goal, has he disclosed his movement's rules and obligations to the world; only after fifteen years has he made the means of success widely known. It is possible that he has arrived at those means and doctrines by trial and error, but it should be absolutely clear that Mashriqi [referring to himself in the third person] has identified those means and doctrines in al-Tazkirah a full nine years and in the Isharat a full three years before the success of the Nazi movement, simply by following the shining guidance of the Holy Koran.¹⁷

16. Baljon, Modern Muslim Koran Interpretation, p. 12.

17. Daeschel, “Scientism and its discontents: the indo-muslim “fascism” of inayatullah khan al-mashriqi*,” pp. 452-453.

Andrew Bostom, "Shariah Versus Freedom" pp.400 Tabbycatlove (talk) 01:35, 6 July 2024 (UTC)