Talk:Alan Gilzean

Politics

The source given by @FirefoxLSD: says: [Hunter] Davies asked the players about their politics and found nine of the 12 who expressed an opinion were Tory – Alan Mullery, Mike England, Martin Peters, Alan Gilzean, Phil Beal, Joe Kinnear, Ray Evans, Terry Naylor and Roger Morgan – while of the three Labour men – Ralph Coates, Cyril Knowles and Steve Perryman – only Perryman seemed to have any “political feeling”.

It then goes on to say most of the players were "apathetic Tories". I think it's a stretch to say that "Glizean is/was a Conservative". All that source supports is the notion that he would have voted Tory when Hunter Davies surveyed the Spurs players. It doesn't say anything about what political activity (if any) he may have undertaken, or if he expressed his views publicly. As the source also says, most footballers don't do this because they don't want the hassle. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 11:37, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

If you prefer, it can be changed to state that he WAS a Conservative when asked. That no mention of his political activity - or lack thereof - is made does not invalidate the point that those are nonetheless his political views. Plenty of people - celebrities included - may state that they have voted a certain way/have particular views without also tirelessly campaigning for that party/politician belief. Gilzean was clearly a Tory at the time, as confessed to Davies. That he did not cram it down people's throats at the time does not make it any less true. I take your point that we can only deduce that he WAS a Tory at the time, and don't know his views now, however his views at the timme still warrant inclusion in the article - just because he told only one person (to the best of our knowledge) doesn't make them any less valid.FirefoxLSD (talk) 20:54, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, something like "when writer Hunter Davies surveyed the Tottenham Hotspur squad in [whenever], Gilzean said that he was supportive of the Conservatives" would be fair comment. I think my point really is that, without further information, we don't know whether these were deeply held views (i.e. if he's always been a Tory) or if it was just transitory support due to personalities, issues or events of that particular time. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 21:17, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

That's fair enough. It sounds like a reasonable compromise. I've made the edit as you suggested. All the best.FirefoxLSD (talk) 11:08, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Gilzean son

@Lee Vilenski: Don't you think Gilzean's son is worth mentioning, linking too? I was about to put this ref next to him before you removed that line. Govvy (talk) 10:59, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Govvy - Oh, I didn't remove it, I simply moved it to the Personal Life section. I can see I've placed this in the wrong place - I'll move. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:02, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

References

Dundee Violet - not Dundee's youth team

The claim "before signing provisional forms with Dundee in January 1956 as a 17-year-old amateur. He played once for their youth team Dundee Violet, but then played again for Coupar Angus while working as a despatch clerk for a carpet manufacturer in Perth" would seem to suggest that Dundee Violet were Dundee F. C.'s youth team. However this has never been the case. Violet were, and are a Junior team, but "junior" in this context refers to Scottish junior football where the "junior" relates to the level of the game (ie below senior), not the age. Also while Dundee may have used Violet (and other Dundee junior teams at various times) to loan players to for experience, there as never been a formal link between the clubs and they are independent entities. Thus I think this statement needs to be reworded, because as it stands it is misleading at best. Dunarc (talk) 20:30, 15 December 2022 (UTC)