Talk:Abu Lu'lu'a

Umar's death date

Umar died on 1 Muharram per Ibn Kathir and several other scholars. Umar was stabbed on 26 Dhu al-Hijja while died few days later on 1 Muharram, please change this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.111.148.36 (talk • contribs) 03:17, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Do you know of a reliable modern secondary source which discusses this date and explicitly mentions 1 Muharram?

The sources currently used only mention "ʿUmar was assassinated, at the height of his powers (his age is given variously as 53, 55, 60, 61 and 63), on 26 Ḏhu ’l-Ḥidjdja 23" (Levi Della Vida & Bonner 1960–2007) and "assassinated the caliph ʿOmar b. al-Ḵaṭṭāb, on Wednesday, 26 Ḏu’l-ḥeǰǰa 23 [...] According to some sources, death was instantaneous. Others relate that the caliph survived three days; this version seems more probable." (Pellat 1983–2011)

Pellat is probably talking about Ibn Kathir, but unfortunately he does not explicitly mention that after surviving three more days (27, 28, 29 Dhu al-Hijja) he died on the fourth day after the assassination, on 1 Muharram. We need another source for this. Thanks, ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 04:03, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello! The source which is cited in the article, History of al-Tabari: Volume XIV: The Conquest of Iran, mentions several dates and included that "Abū Ja'far [al-Ṭabarī] said that it is also reported that ('Umar) died at the beginning of al-Muḥarram, 24 [November 7, 644]. I am not an expert on Wikipedia so unfortunately don't know much, if you could maybe find any good sources for 1 Muharram date because on the date of 1 Muharram every year, several events and rallies are carried by Sunnis in commemoration of Umar especially throughout South Asia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.57.223.145 (talk • contribs) 07:48, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

That's interesting, SheryOffical. Unfortunately al-Tabari is also a primary source, and we need a secondary source for this. I don't have time to look for one right now; maybe later. I have also adjusted it in the Umar article, and asked editors there to look for a source. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 13:31, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@Apaugasma: Well, after a little bit of research, I found one source for the 1 Muharram date and that is Meir Litvak's Know The Enemy: Evolving Attitudes Towards "Others" in Modern Shiʿi Thought and Practice in which Litvak mentions about Umar Kushan on page 132: "prominent Shiʿī authorities, such as Shaykh Mufīd and Ibn Idrīs al-Ḥīllī (d. 1201), who had maintained that there was no historical basis to the claim that ʿUmar was killed on 9 Rabīʿ but that he actually died at the end of Ẕī Ḥijjah or the first of Muḥarram; the ḥadīth attributed to the Prophet of praising....". This may be a good source to add to the Umar Kushan] article. Shaykh Kasuri 22:20, 5 June 2024 (UTC)