Talk:Aalto University

Contents copied from other pages (appended to end)

The article seems to append contents from three different existing wiki pages to end of documents (3 schools). It should be better if there was short introduction and main article was stated instead --Murrur (talk) 03:48, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

this article is a mess, any good ideas to make it usable?

Seriously one does not figure where information of one school starts and for one school ends... and what should be in a subarticle and what not. This article should be reworked to present the aalto university with just short introductions of the strong points of all the constituent schools. Of course then also the articles about the constituent schools should be worked on (this article is reaaaallly boring without much pictures)

Right now it babbles on about the board of directors, logo and that's about it. things I think should be added

• Design factory & other factories
• What differs between the schools (ie. admission is still separate for instance)
• The three campuses
• Under student life Aalto on tracks and Aalto entrepeneurship society
• Starting next year also old TKK will be split into four constituent schools. Starting to list them too here will just make the article even more of a mess.

the constituent school articles also require a lot of work. For instance I really get no clue about to what I could study or research at any of the schools. TKK for instance has multitudes of interesting laboratories (VTT BNCT treatments, the huge pool for testing miniature models of ships, the top-oh-the-notch TEM center, the very good cleanroom facilities on campus). I hope someone could contribute with some photos.

Gillis (talk) 18:50, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I think it is more important to write *What is* instead of getting stuck i nexplaining what was before. I doubt we really need anything else than the history section mentioning the old schools and departments therein. 130.233.241.17 (talk) 14:39, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

For the record, I now think this article is in much better shape... good work guys n' gals. There is still space for a lot more information especially on research and history... also the sub articles of the engineering schools seem awfully empty. Gillis (talk) 21:09, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Somebody please fix the geotag of this article. It is now pointing to Otaniemi instead of the tree equal locations the university is located at. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wasapl (talk • contribs) 19:46, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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TKK/HUT

Helsinki University of Technology link seems to point to this page. I think that the nation's oldest university of technology would be notable as a historical article on its own. At the moment there is no one article discussing the old HUT other than the stub Aalto University School of Science and Technology. Parabole (talk) 13:52, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Detailed admission statistics in body text instead of footnote

I re-added the paragraph to the main text, since it seems that's how related details usually are presented in Wikipedia and encyclopedias in general. Subarctica (talk) 21:37, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Well to be honest, I am not very certain the stats are very relevant to the article at all. You are talking about the admission to only a part of the school (engineering programs), and then only the admission procedure for Finnish students. Many of these statistics change a lot between the years. I'd say for the international reader of an encyclopedia the most relevant information was the information already stated.

I also find the comparison to harvard's math 55 etc. a bit silly. Okay TKK is a high-quality school in Finland. But we also have one of the largest surplusses of spots for higher education. That TKK requires *some* level of skill does not make it an elite school in international standings. It just points out that any loon can get a slot at the other schools of higher education in finland (we have 17 universities for 5 million people, and we actually *pay* for people to hang around at them).

There is also this weird finnish way of thinking that where you get in is some kind of great feat... there is a much more competitive and famous university in europe, ETHZ, and they let everyone in who has passed their matriculation. Still I doubt even close to all people who get in to tkk would survive there.

Imho. this added info is worth a footnote at most. Gillis (talk) 17:00, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

The stats are supposed to substantiate the claim in general the scores required for the Aalto University are higher than for any other university granting entry through the DIA exam, which I think is exactly what they do. The text was supposed to be only about science&tech programs, but while revising I seem to accidentally have removed the part stating that. Now that the text is in the science&tech subsection, I think the scope is clear. I agree that some parts of the text should maybe be cleaned, and I will look into it later. In no case do I think the text should go to a footnote. Either it should be removed or it should stay in the article body. However, this is only my opinion, and others are welcome.

I do think admissions information should be added for economics and arts, too, but I'm not planning to do it myself anytime soon. In addition, I think admissions statistics for international and master's students could be added.

Finland has approximately 120k people per an AMK or an university. The US has approximately 130k people per a 4-year college. If you do the math (approx 26 % of the population of the Finnish ~25 years old age group graduate from either an AMK or a university each year, approx 25 % of the population of the US college-aged students graduate with a Bachelor's degree each year) it's quite obvious that the amount of people getting higher education is quite similar.

Silly or not, the numbers stated with comparison to math 55 in my opinion illustrate the tough nature of L courses quite well (without any regard to their quality). That part has nothing to do with how easy it is to get to TKK, and should be discussed separately if you think it's not either verifiable or noteworthy.

I invite you to calculate/approximate what kind of a percentage of Finnish population can get to the top decile of TKK students, and then compare it to the percentage of US population who can get to the top colleges, such as Harvard. Funny US admissions criteria such as hobbies, athleticism, minority status and family name make the results a bit non-straightforward, but the magnitude should be clear. The result does not make TKK/Aalto a good quality university, but it does inevitably make the students of the comparable starting quality to the corresponding top percentage of the US students. Most or all US colleges publish their admission percentages, making further comparison to specific schools easy.

Finally, please note that this article should have nothing to do with feats of any kind, but it should give a good picture of the facts. And if the fact is that it's not easy for a random dude from the streets to get to TKK, it should be mentioned. I miss the final point about ETHZ. Are you implying Swiss matriculation is that much more difficult and/or the students are that much better, so that anyone who passes the matriculation is automatically better than an average TKK student? ETHZ seems to have a quite high drop-out rate, which is of course a good alternative for strict entrance exams, even though the percentages don't come even close. I agree that the research of ETHZ is way beyond the level of TKK, but that again is a separate issue from the student quality.

Subarctica (talk) 18:54, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

All right, fair points, let's keep the bulk of your entry in then. However, I must say direct quantitative comparisons to US universities are impossible for many reasons, partly because they have a huge load of foreign students enrolling, especially for higher degrees. If i remember correctly the Ivy league schools accept below 10% of b.sc applications. But an US application is a lot different to the one to a finnish uni, as you pointed out as well. Also, they generally do not apply for specific programs. Average grades on the other hand point to a lot lower study morale at aalto than at let's say columbia where 70% make the dean's list, while 20% do at aalto (oivallinen), but that may also just reflect grading criteria. This of course has notthing to do with admissions though.

Perhaps the part about the matriculation examination scores etc. could be left out, because it is very much a minor detail and very few who read the article have any previous knowledge about what the Finnish matriculation examination is about. Also, is just one channel of acceptign students, while what is of intetrest is just the general admission requirements. Gillis (talk) 10:27, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure if grades accurately reflect the study morale, due to a strong grade inflation in some colleges in the US. I.e., if in a US college A is defined so that 70 % will get one, and in Aalto 5 is reserved for only the top of 10 % students of the class, then A and 5 might not reflect the same amount of skill compared to the classmates. I agree the matriculation exam scores are a very minor point, and I wrote the paragraph with the idea in mind that it's easier to remove text than to add it. However, since DIA does not publish the true score distributions of applicants - even the mean was a bit tricky to find - the mean scores of admitted people of different universities can't directly be compared. That's why I added the sentence about top scores required to gain entrance, to have some easy-to-understand hard facts. If you don't think that sentence is required, feel free to remove it, I won't revert. Subarctica (talk) 13:51, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, where did you find the data needed to calculate the percentiles mentioned? "The minimum scores required for these top programs are in the 95th-99th percentile range of the whole applicant pool, and approximately 98th-99.8th percentile of what would be the score distribution of the whole age group." . Does this relate to matriculation examination scores alone? And where did you find the distribution for the applicants? source would be great to add in. Gillis (talk) 12:10, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

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Proposed merge of Aalto University School of Science into Aalto University

There are very few sources that show any notability of the school, separately from the whole university, aside from routine coverage. Would handsomely fit into the University's articlee Pratat (talk) 15:36, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

As this has been sitting on top of the article for a few months and no one objected, I converted Aalto University School of Science into a redirect. Vahurzpu (talk) 19:04, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

"A?" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect A? has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 September 16 § A? until a consensus is reached. mwwv ^converse∫_edits 17:12, 16 September 2024 (UTC)