Talk:A Wrinkle in Time (2018 film)

New logo

There is now an official logo for the film as seen here. I would load it myself, but everytime I do a page's image it is reverted.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 04:23, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Done before.

I hold in my hand a copy of A Wrinkle in Time. It is by Disney, and has a mention of a Best Actress in a supporting role, Cross Creek, 1983. That is the only date on the box. But what you are seeing is a remake, not a first make. Starred Kate Stuart, Gregory Smith, David Dorfman among others. Directed by John Kent Harrison.

It may have been a made for TV movie, according to Time Magazine such was produced in 2003— Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.144.81.53 (talk) 21:15, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

You likely have a copy of A Wrinkle in Time (2003 film), currently listed as a "See also". (Woodard, Mrs. Whatsit in the 2003 version, was nominated for 1983's Cross Creek (film)).

That said, this film is not a "remake". A remake is a film based on a film. This film is based on the original novel, not the poorly received 2003 film. - SummerPhD^v2.0 00:21, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Fact vs. opinion

This edit turns critics opinions into facts.

"... critics, who praised the film's cast, ambition and empowering messages but criticized the convoluted plot, tone, dialogue and character development, as well as the overuse of CGI."

Critics might criticize a plot as being convoluted or say the plot is convoluted. If, however, they criticize the convoluted plot, we have just stated that the plot is convoluted. This also applies to the "overuse of CGI". Whether or not the plot is "convoluted" or CGI is "overused" are matters of opinion and, if presented at all, should be presented as such. - SummerPhD^v2.0 23:22, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

i notice justice league says:

the action sequences, visual effects, and performances (particularly Gadot and Miller) were praised, while the plot, writing, pacing, villain, and overuse of CGI were criticized.

what about overuse of cgi here? why that not deleted yet? abraham lincoln: vampire hunter? machete kills? alice in wonderland?

i question if is there guideline? policy? consensus? IUpdateRottenTomatoes (talk) 23:31, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, there are problems in other articles. If there are spelling mistakes in other articles, should we add some here?

"Overuse" is an opinion, not a fact. Frankly, I do not feel like looking for a policy that says we should state facts as facts and opinions as opinions. Which of the following would you say is correct:

• Chocolate is the best flavor of ice cream.<ref>Smith, Joan. ''Big City News'', "Ice cream flavors I like".</ref>
• Food critic Joan Smith thinks chocolate is the best flavor of ice cream.<ref>Smith, Joan. ''Big City News'', "Ice cream flavors I like".</ref>

It's kinda silly to even compare the two. - SummerPhD^v2.0 23:48, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

i raise following: food critic praised chocolate as best flavor. not the same as chocolate is best flavor. IUpdateRottenTomatoes (talk) 00:08, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

...and a film critic saying the film overused CGI is not the same as the film overused CGI.

That is an opinion. Clearly, the people who made the film do not think they "overused" CGI. Some critics disagree, which they can do because it is an opinion. For the same reason that we would not say chocolate is the best ice cream flavor, we should not say the film has a convoluted plot and overuses CGI. - SummerPhD^v2.0 01:55, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

it is just your interpretation of wording. i think sentence communicate that opinion is of critic. IUpdateRottenTomatoes (talk) 17:56, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

That is just your interpretation of the wording. I think the sentence does not clearly communicate that it is critics' opinions.

In any case, Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Film states, "If any form of paraphrasing is disputed, quote the source directly." As the paraphrasing is disputed, I suggest we quote the source directly:

...with critics "taking issue with the film’s heavy use of CGI and numerous plot holes" while "celebrating its message of female empowerment and diversity."

- SummerPhD^v2.0 19:06, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

i find that is ok and you can change if want. but putting "said" in sentence to clarify opinion is not right way, it create messy sentence. any how this is just two people discuss the sentence and more opinion should help. IUpdateRottenTomatoes (talk) 19:16, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

There is nothing "messy" about using the word "said" in a sentence to clarify the source of an opinion.

Yes, this is just the two of us discussing the sentence. While it is certainly true that more opinions would be helpful, no one has been directly excluded. Anyone objecting will certainly have the right to re-open the question.

The new version (and my original proposal) puts opinions in the context of opinions. I cannot imagine why there was any objection to that in the first place. - SummerPhD^v2.0 01:30, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

i find original have many comma and break up flow. put "said" for sake of putting "said", it is tiring to read. but i find new wording is ok to read. IUpdateRottenTomatoes (talk) 22:32, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

You may find that the original had many commas "break(ing) up (the) flow", but my change did not add any commas. "Said" was used to indicate it was what the critics were saying. Who writes like that? The source, titled "What the Critics Are Saying". - SummerPhD^v2.0 01:51, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Controversy

Why isn't there any mention of the controversy surrounding the films's blackwashing of the white main character, her brother, and her mother in order to shove the diversity agenda down everyone's throats? http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/08/10/wrinkle-in-times-diverse-cast-draws-attention.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.164.20.193 (talk) 08:54, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

See WP:DUE. DonQuixote (talk) 12:41, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

I can't say I recall the original novel saying the characters are of any particular race. My guess is you whitewashed them in your mind. - SummerPhD^v2.0 13:50, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

From the article about the novel, A Wrinkle in Time: "Madeleine L'Engle mirrored the Murry family after her own." Madeleine L'Engle is white, as is her family.70.89.176.249 (talk) 02:00, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

First, you are assuming that everything that is true about the real family is necessarily true of the family in the novel, which is obviously not true ("Meg Murray" has a different name, travelled in ways Madeleine L'Engle certainly has not, etc.). Next, you've decided that any change you have decided was made in noteworthy. (It's WP:OR.). - SummerPhD^v2.0 05:38, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Meg is a red head in the novel. Personally, I don't care about that set of changes since it wasn't important to the novel. I was unhappy of the movie changing Calvin's abusive mom to be his dad, but that is more PC today. 128.229.4.2 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:41, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Also a redhead: Malcolm X. - SummerPhD^v2.0 22:15, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

As an experienced editor, you should always be mindful of WP:ASG. The fact that you are so brazen with your racism accusation is frankly, quite disgusting. S806 (talk) 13:20, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

The assumption that whitewashing is always racism would make the inclusion of the term in most articles a BLP concern. I am not aware of that happening. I am merely pointing to the common human thought process whereby people project their own characteristics on fictional characters. My assumption is that the IP editor is a human being, nothing more specific. - SummerPhD^v2.0 23:19, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

The initial fringe-perspective comment aside, this article is lacking a section like the "Black representation and analysis" section at Black Panther (film). There has been commentary about the multi-racial casting and specifically the portrayal of a young black girl. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 14:30, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Shit like this is not notable, someone always complains when race/sexuality/gender is changed.★Trekker (talk) 19:53, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Indeed they do.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/11/a-white-actor-was-cast-as-mlk-until-the-black-playwright-caught-wind-of-it/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.176.249 (talk • contribs) 21:03, December 3, 2018 (UTC)

"Shit like this" might or might not be notable. If there is substantial coverage of it in independent reliable sources, it is notable and should be included. An article about a different film says nothing whatsoever about this one. - SummerPhD^v2.0 05:42, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Screenplay credit

So there seems to be a bit of disagreement over who is credited with the screenplay credit. Some sources (like official poster billing or https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/03/a-wrinkle-in-time-review) credit solely Jennifer Lee while others (like https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/a-wrinkle-time-review-1090750) say Jeff Stockwell received co-credit. It’s not uncommon for a film to not credit people who wrote an initial draft with the final product (like Mission: Impossible – Rogue Nation) but typically the studios are in the right, not critics. I think only Lee should be listed, but clearly this needs a discussion. Cheers. TropicAces (talk) 19:08, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Having just come out of the movie, I saw Stockwell credited. Perhaps he did enough that the wga arbitration system still left him credited.Crboyer (talk) 21:13, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Crboyer is he credited in the opening crawl/credits? Weird. Well if that’s the case I suppose he should be included in the infobox; I’ll try to find a source. TropicAces (talk) 02:29, 12 March 2018 (UTC)tropicAces

Closing credits. The film has no opening credits, but I saw the credit "Screenplay by Jennifer Lee and Jeff Stockwell." Crboyer (talk) 03:03, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Plot synopsis

About time to add a full and complete synopsis of the movie, since it is now out in theaters in the United States. SpiritedMichelle (talk) 03:51, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Mrs Murry

The credits show the character's name as "Mrs Murry". Should the list of characters in this article reflect the title credits? She's also called "Mrs Murry" in the book. Rklawton (talk) 20:28, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

In this case, I don't think it really matters. SpiritedMichelle (talk) 03:54, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Bomb?

I'm wondering if it would be appropriate to add that the film seems to be bombing badly at the box office, giving its really poor performance this week. Maybe after the weekend if things don't pick up? MikeR613 (talk) 12:25, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

No. To add that the movie is or seems to be a bomb, you will need and independent reliable source that says it is or seems to be a bomb. - SummerPhD^v2.0 12:39, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Of course. But there are already several such sources.MikeR613 (talk) 12:51, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

If you have several reliable sources saying it is a bomb, your question seems to be "Can I add reliably sourced information to the article?", which isn't a question. - SummerPhD^v2.0 17:17, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

As yet they don't seem that reliable to me. The closest was Fox News entertainment - from Mar. 7.MikeR613 (talk) 16:18, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

"Bomb" would be a subjective term and so we would probably need several reliable sources saying it's a "bomb" for us to claim that it has been described as bombing at the box office. That said, there are already multiple reliable sources saying it's shown disappointing box office performance [1] [2] [3], and if sources keep saying that beyond the 2nd weekend it would probably be appropriate to add that claim to the article. Rlendog (talk) 23:35, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Also consider the more neutral term "box office disappointment". Anywikiuser (talk) 15:27, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

• As an old person who remembers both Heaven's Gate (which I saw in the movie theater) and Ishtar (which I saw on its first release to video), when I looked at the lead for this entry's page that WikiLinked to box office bomb, I was very confused. I clicked through the WikiLink, which led (via the See also) to List of films considered the worst. It is clear that the use of the word "box office bomb" is both inaccurate as well as a characterization of the film which is not neutral. I haven't seen the film as it's not really my cup of tea, but as an outside party not involved on this page until now, I removed the descriptor. There's no way that Wrinkle makes it to the above list. It may have a complicated budget history but I'm sure with ancillary sales and the long tail of Disney products, it will do just fine. -- BrillLyle (talk) 04:12, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

"woman of color"

The phrase has been repeatedly changed to "black woman". The source cited[4] says "woman of color", which is a broader term than "black woman". All black women are women of color, but not all women of color are black women.

Changing this to "black woman" would be similar to saying that Neil Armstrong was the first person over the age of 18 to walk on the Moon. While it is true that Armstrong was the first person over the age of 18 (and DuVernay is the first black woman), it is more meaningful to say that Armstrong was the first person (and DuVernay is the first woman of color). - SummerPhD^v2.0 18:26, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

• I added the The Atlantic citation which has the phrasing in the title of the article. I hope this is helpful. I left the hidden text but maybe now that can be removed? -- BrillLyle (talk) 04:15, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

A new issue with the phrase has been brought up. Yes, "colored" is an archaic, offensive term for blacks in the U.S. That said, "person of color" is not related. As noted above, it is a broader term identifying persons who are not white by what they are: "of color". The alternative phrase is the offensive "non-white", which is clearly othering. - SummerPhD^v2.0 04:47, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Off-topic chat

So, "white" is no longer a color? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.176.249 (talk) 02:03, 4 December 2018 (UTC) If the [[person of color}common terminology]] confounds you, any halfway decent reference librarian can recommend some reading for you. Your local community college may also offer some basic coursework that you may find helpful. All of that is beyond the scope of this page. - SummerPhDv2.0 21:03, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Budget

How is the film spent more than $110 million in California not clear? This isn't the economic impact, it's the actual direct production spend. The economic impact of a $100 million budget would be two to three times the initial $100 million, so saying a mere $110 million is the impact is just nonsense. Also, FilmLA published a filming fact that lists the spend as $117 million. link Foodles42 (talk) 21:09, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

putting money into the economy isn’t the same thing as a production budget. Also there are incentives (as you cited) which would likely bring the $110-130 spent down to $100, which is the most-cited figure TropicAces (talk) 21:37, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

No, most of the sources for $100 million say movie over $100 million, meaning it's more than. And we have the director herself saying what the budget is, so that should be the end of the story. Anyways, you added a range, which is the rule..so I think we are good. But when a film spends it's production budget, that is 100% literally putting money in the economy. Foodles42 (talk) 22:00, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

I added the California Film Commission report that announced the tax credit that Wrinkle was provided with, as I believe the report(s) from the Commission say that the film was if not almost wholly, then at least mostly shot in California including the specified Humboldt County, California (except for some shooting in New Zealand). I think the facts of the movie business is that both budgets and marketing spends -- and tax credits like this -- make it very difficult to analyze the budgets of films. I hope these additional citations I added tonight help provide factual data and neutral information here. I'm not sure what Yahoo! Finance is basing their facts on, but it seems less than ideal and a bit speculative when I was looking at the article(s). -- BrillLyle (talk) 04:19, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Proposed Changes to A Wrinkle in Time (2018 film)

I will add content about Ava DuVernay being the first African-American female director to direct a movie with a budget over $100 million.

I will also add more content and replace the content already in the article in the "Reception" section. I will do this, because Wikipedia explicitly says not to include references from Rotten Tomatoes or similar sources, which is what the article has in its Reception section currently

I will also add citations to improve the article's reliability, an important element of Wikipedia's guidelines for quality articles.

I will reorder the article’s structure to better meet Wikipedia’s criterion for balance so that no section takes over the article, a small edit.

Works Cited

April Wolfe. "Ava DuVernay's Humanity Shines in Big-Budget Wrinkle in Time." March 7, 2018. Web. <https://www.laweekly.com/film/ava-duvernays-humanity-shines-in-big-budget-wrinkle-in-time-9229186>.

"Ava DuVernay becomes first black woman to direct a $100 million movie." The Chicago Tribune. June 22, 2018. Web. <https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/movies/ct-ava-duvernay-black-milestone-20180622-story.html>.

Ava DuVernay. "Ava DuVernay on Instagram." June 22, 2018. Web. <https://www.instagram.com/p/BkUCw7UlwtQ/?hl=en&taken-by=ava>.

DEBRUGE, PETER. "A Wrinkle in Time." Variety 339.9 (2018): 65-6. Web.

Deino, Daryl. "Ava DuVernay’s ‘A Wrinkle in Time’ could be Sabotaged by Hype." The New York Observer, 2017, US Newsstream. Web. <http://proxy.library.georgetown.edu/login?url=https://search.proquest.com/docview/1923042312?accountid=11091>.

HIGGINS, BILL. "In 2004, Disney's First Wrinkle in Time Fell Flat." Hollywood Reporter 424.10 (2018): 96. Web.

Howze, Merecedes J. "Imagery is Everything in 'A Wrinkle in Time'." New Pittsburgh Courier, 2018, Ethnic NewsWatch, US Newsstream. Web. <http://proxy.library.georgetown.edu/login?url=https://search.proquest.com/docview/2021894120?accountid=11091>.

Katz, Brandon. "What are Critics Saying about ‘A Wrinkle in Time’?" The New York Observer, 2018, US Newsstream. Web. <http://proxy.library.georgetown.edu/login?url=https://search.proquest.com/docview/2008908507?accountid=11091>.

Marc Snetiker. "First Look: A Wrinkle in Time ." Entertainment Weekly: 96-7. Web.

McCarthy, Todd. "A Wrinkle in Time: Ava DuVernay's Adaptation of the Classic Children's Novel is a Disappointment: Uninvolving, Visually Disjointed and Erratically Acted." 2018: 89. Biography In Context; Gale. Web. <http://link.galegroup.com/apps/doc/A531710035/BIC?u=wash43584&sid=BIC&xid=ab5c1f16>.

The Rev. Irene Monroe. "A black girl's take on 'A Wrinkle in Time': Equal opportunity to be America's darling." Cambridge Day. March 23, 2018. Web. <https://www.cambridgeday.com/2018/03/23/a-black-girls-take-on-a-wrinkle-in-time-equal-opportunity-to-be-americas-darling/>.

Wenlei Ma. "MOVIE REVIEW: A Wrinkle in Time is Visually Spectacular but Unsatisfying." (2018)Web.

"With Go-for-Broke Exuberance, 'A Wrinkle in Time' Celebrates the Power of Love." Fresh Air., 2018. Literature Resource Center; Gale. Web.

Apolizzotto4 (talk) 18:12, 4 December 2018 (UTC)