Talk:538

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Please answer these questions, by number:

1. Why 1260? What happened 1260 years later?

2. Why would this be worthy of mentioning?

3. What does "ruler" mean when applied to a Pope?

4. In which way Popes became "rulers" in 538 and why not later?

5. Also, why not earlier (and consider the Ostrogoths a temporary "issue")?

6. Could you please cite your sources? Google showed me nothing relevant.

In 1798, the state of the Pope was conquered by France (Napoleon)

1) In 538 the papacy gained it's political leadership from a decree made by Justinian. In 538 the Pope was granted an army from Rome also. In 1798 Berthier, a general of Napoleon, marched his soldiers into the Vatican and captured the Pope taking away his political power. 1260 years.

2) Religious purposes dealing with the Little Horn power of Daniel 7 and the first beast of Revelation 13.

3) and 4) The Pope became not just a Religious power but a "religio-political" power in 538 and lost the polical aspect of that power in 1798. That wound was healed in 1929 when Italy gave the political power back to the Popes. Ever wondered why in the game of chess that a Bishop is next to the king?

5) The Ostrogoths had captured Rome and were virtually destroyed in 538. They were never again a formidable foe although they have kings listed into the 550's.

6) Here are a few quotes and the publications (my sources) they are from...

“AD 538 [was] the year when the Ostrogoths collapsed. It was out of the smoking ruins of the western Roman Empire and after the overthrow of the three Arian kingdoms that the pope of Rome emerged as the most important single individual in the West, the head of a closely organized church with a carefully defined creed and with vast potential for political influence. Dozens of writers have pointed out that the real survivor of the ancient Roman Empire was the Church of Rome.” (John L. McKenzie,The Roman Catholic Church, New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1969, page 14)

"The papacy's power became supreme in Christendom in 538 AD due to a letter of the Roman emperor Justinian, known as Justinian's decree, which set up and acknowledged the bishop of Rome as the head of all churches. It gave the papacy political power, civil power as well as ecclesiastical power. This letter became part of Justinian's code, the fundamental law of the empire and the year Pope vigilius ascended the throne under the military protection of Belasarius." The History of the Christian Church, vol. 3, p. 327: (author?)

“The murder of a Frenchman in Rome in 1798 gave the French an excuse for occupying the Eternal City and putting an end to the Papal temporal power. The aged Pontiff himself was carried off into exile to Valance… The enemies of the church rejoiced. The Last Pope, they declared, had reigned.” Church History p. 24.

“In 1798 he (Berthier) made his entrance into Rome, ABOLISHED THE PAPAL GOVERNAMENT and established a secular one.” The Encyclopedia Americana, 1941 edition.

Requested move 27 April 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 01:59, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

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• 538 → AD 538
• 538 (disambiguation) → 538

– The year is not the primary topic. FiveThirtyEight is primary by usage, so disambiguate the base name. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 03:46, 27 April 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 00:29, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

• Support (strongly) per nom. See User:Crouch, Swale/Year DAB (made by @Crouch, Swale: a while back) for other non-primary year articles. Paintspot Infez (talk) 06:35, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: Also, back during the "User:Crouch, Swale/Year DAB" days, the users @Certes, KingSkyLord, and JFG: had other suggestions for cases where there's no primary topic for a certain string of digits, so it might be worthwhile to check out some of those suggestions as well. Paintspot Infez (talk) 21:58, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: Per long term significance and WP:RECENT. The blog is recent and has only limited geographical significance. YorkshireExpat (talk) 08:38, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per Use:YorkshireExpat. JIP | Talk 12:42, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per long-term significance. Egsan Bacon (talk) 16:09, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
• Weak support the years has 528 views but FiveThirtyEight has 10,544[[1]]. The number may also have more long-term significance but it doesn't have a separate article. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
• Neutral, as I was pinged. No one outside the U.S. has heard of FiveThirtyEight^{[citation needed]} so, for 85% of, readers the primary topic is a year when nothing much happened (or possibly an uninteresting integer). Pageviews for 538 are similar to adjacent years, so we don't have hordes of Americans landing there wondering where we hid the political website. However, that website is known as "538" and its article does get a lot of views, so a dab might serve our readers better. Certes (talk) 23:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per LTS — JFG ^talk 07:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose The rebrand from FiveThirtyEight to 538 seems to be a relatively new development, so it feels a little "recentist" to move this page already. Maybe a hatnote would suffice for now? Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 08:43, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

  This isn't recentism - I would still have thought the move were warranted even if the website were referred to with the numerals spelled out. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:51, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting for better consensus. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 00:29, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per long-term significance. Basically nothing can or should displace the years after 200 AD. SnowFire (talk) 18:55, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

  Can AD 1000 really be a primary topic for the term "1000"? Is it highly likely... to be the topic sought, and does it have substantially greater enduring notability than, say, a number in regular use since the Ancient Greeks? Certes (talk) 20:18, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

  I'd be happy to move the year 1000 to that base page too. Anyway, this proposal isn't citing the number "538", because I do agree that numbers themselves are the main competition. SnowFire (talk) 21:35, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.