Talk:5-inch/54-caliber Mark 45 gun

No references

The only reference is to an offline book whose ISBN is made up...

Delete the page? 24.20.129.195 (talk) 06:53, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Its Name?

Is the "-" in the title to avoid the slash in "5/54"? Maybe Mark 45 gun would be better--are there any other "Mark 45"s? Do we have a conventional way of naming weapon systems? (Category:Naval artillery suggests not.) —wwoods 21:35, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

• Personally, I hate the title of the article too. I was following perceived convention of 16-50 Mark 7. I'm all for changing this into something more resembling reality. --Durin 22:46, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

• I've just posted 5"/38 caliber gun. I thought a lot about the name before posting it (I'm an ex-naval officer). The 5"/38 article includes several versions (different MK's). This article might be renamed to 5"/54 Mark 45. The words "caliber" and "gun" could be in there, but are maybe not necessary. Maybe it could be 5"/54 caliber gun, for coordination with the other article, and to allow for discussion of other Marks if there are any. Lou Sander 00:37, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

We also have links regarding the 5"/62 which is Mk 45 Mod 4 linking here. How common is the 5"/62 with the 5"/54? (Should/does 5'/62 have is own page. Actually on a ship tour the guide stated the 5'/62 on his ship was an old mount, just refurbished- Wondered if that was a misstatement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wfoj2 (talk • contribs) 16:23, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

The name of the weapon is actually the 5"/54 calibre Mark 45 gun. The word "calibre" (CALIBRE) is NOT, Repeat NOT, some funky British-based misspelling.

The term "calibre" is a measure of the length of the naval gun in terms of its bore. To be precise, the barrel of a 5" - 54 calibre naval gun is (5" x 54) = 270 inches long, and for those who have trouble with so many inches, that is 22 feet, six inches long.

Reference? See: "The History of United States Naval Operations in World War II" by Samuel Eliot Morison, where Dr. Morison explains the meaning of "calibre" very clearly.

By the way of comparison, the new 5" - 62 calibre naval gun that is mounted on the newest 25 or so of the destroyers of the USS Arleigh Burke-class is (5" x 62) = 310 inches long, and for those who have trouble with so many inches, that is 25 feet, 10 inches long.

Longer guns have advantages and disadvantages. The disadvantages include the higher technology needed to get the ammunition's explosive propellant to burn long enough and smooth enough for such a long barrel (This is partly a problem in chemical engineering.) and keeping such a long barrel clean. The advantage is mainly this: with the longer barrel, and the right kind of explosive propellant, the gun can provide a higher muzzle velocity, and with that, 1) longer range, 2) more penetrating power against either warships or land fortifications, and 3) in the anti-aircraft mode, the ability ot fire shells to higher altitudes.

The term "caliber" has a completely-different meaning, and it gives the bore of a gun in hundredths of an inch. Thus, a .60 caliber machine gun bullet has a bore of 60/100 = 0.6 inches in diameter, and for all practical purposes, it also fires a bullet that is 0.6 inches in diameter. (You can figure it out for .22 caliber, .30 caliber, .38 caliber, .45 caliber, or whatever you like. A 357 magnum pistol bullet has a caliber of .357, and its bullet is 357/1000 inches in diameter.)

Calibre is a useful concept in Army and Marine Corps artillery, also. A howitzer is a rather low-calibre artillery piece, used for lobbing shells at the enemy. Then, a high-calibre artillery piece has a long barrel, a high muzzle velocity, and is useful for firing in a flat trajectory against enemy fortifications, tanks, and armored personnel carriers - OR for bombarding targets from a very long range. For one example, if an army needs to fire nuclear warheads with artillery, a high-calibre artillery piece is the one to use: fire the damn nuke 20 miles away and then crawl into a hole!

"The Army and the Marines also have very low-calibre artillery weapons: mortars. They strictly lob explosives, smoke shells, or chemical weapons at the enemy on high trajectories.

The German 88 millimeter gun of WW II was a high-calibre weapon with a very long barrel. It was originally developed as an anti-aircraft gun for firing shells to really high altitudes. However, German commanders like Erwin Rommel found that the very high muzzle velocity that you could get from one of those 88 mm guns made them great anti-tank guns. The British in North Africa and the Russians found out all about this, with a lot of suffering.

The U.S. Army developed a very similar anti-aircraft gun that was used by its field divisions - a 90 mm gun, and one that could also be used for an anti-tank gun, and like the German 88 mm gun, could also be mounted on a tank. The German "Tiger" tanks were armed with the high-calibre 88 mm guns, and they were deadly.

The American, Canadian, and British armies mostly defeated the Tiger tanks with air power. A P-47 Thunderbolt or a Canadian or British Typhoon fighter-bomber was a great weapon against the German Tiger or Panther tanks.98.81.2.95 (talk) 04:59, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Two options

This article's name continues to be a problem given the advent of a 62 caliber variant. It appears the US Navy uses the designation "Mark-45 5-inch-gun 54/62 Caliber", see [1]. This article could be renamed accordingly and retain details about both calibers. Alternatively, the article's present name could be retained and the 62 caliber gun information would be spun-off into a new article, 5"/62 caliber Mark 45 gun. I think I prefer the latter. Accurizer (talk) 12:04, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

new 5"/62 calibre mod 4 range

The BAE product page linked in the article lists a range greater than 20 nautical miles / 36km —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.231.37.18 (talk) 05:45, 10 December 2010 (UTC) Could some one add more specifics as to how much is different with the Mod 4. The calibre is extended to 62 from 54 a longer barrel. But for the topside mount, inside the covering- all that equipment, hyrdaulics ... - how much change is there? Wfoj2 (talk) 21:26, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Replaceable Liner?

The article states that the Mod 0 had a replaceable liner. However,I was on the USS Ouellett when it was on the Gun Line in '72. While helping defeat the NVA during the Easter Offensive, we wore out our 5"/54's barrel. We were sent to Sasebo, where the barrel was replaced. (And, in fact, by the time our cruise was over, we'd used up about half of the service life of the new one.) Does anybody have a cite for this, because I've never heard of a 5" gun with a replaceable liner before.JDZeff (talk) 20:51, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

News

BAE gets contract for Mark 45 for Type 26

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160728005348/en/BAE-Systems-Awarded-245-Million-Contract-UK

Cantab1985 (talk) 08:07, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

HPV speed

The article states that "HVP shells fired from 5-inch deck guns would travel at Mach 3, half the speed of a railgun but twice the speed of conventional rounds". The faster speed for conventional rounds is given as 807.7 m/s, which is about 2.35 times the speed of sound (343 m/s). Thus, the speed of the HPV shell would only be c. 1.28 times the speed of conventional rounds, which is not a heck of a lot. One might note that 6-inch coastal guns from the late 1800s were already able to reach 800 m/s, so this field hasn't seen much development over the last century.--Death Bredon (talk) 22:00, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

User:America789, why did you do this revert? It's been reported all over the place (web search). This (just found) might be a bit better sourcing than the article I used but it's the same info. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 09:08, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Darth Bredon, that's interesting, HVP for artillery is defined as 3500 fps or greater.[2] So these Mark 45 shells could be anything above that. We should try to find the actual speed. In aeronautics the hypersonic regime starts around Mach 5, so I was a bit surprised to hear that these "hypervelocity" shells (that are supposed to knock out incoming supersonic missiles) were so slow. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 19:16, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Future Operators

Why is Australia listed as a 'Future Operator' and also a 'Current Operator'? Yes it is for a new class of ship, but surely that fact sould be listed under 'Current Operator' as they already have two existing ship classes with the gun?144.139.103.173 (talk) 02:31, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Size of Mark-45

Can you tell me the size of the Mark-45 cannon? (barrel length, length without barrel, height, width). please let me know. 171.224.177.108 (talk) 12:50, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:3"/21 caliber field gun which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:49, 28 December 2023 (UTC)