Talk:28th Street station (IRT Lexington Avenue Line)

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:28th Street station (IRT Lexington Avenue Line)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Found5dollar (talk · contribs) 19:10, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

I plan on reviewing this article as I use this station often! This is my first ever GA review so please allow for a bit of novice level questioning through this process. --Found5dollar (talk) 19:10, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Lead and infobox

Over all does a very nice job at summarizing the article.

• Under transit connections in the infobox should there be a mention of how close the nearest Citibike station is? if I'm not mistaken I think there is one less than a block away.
  • It is, but the connections section is generally used for public transport connections. It may be a bit trivial to mention whether the station is next to a CitiBike station, since almost all subway stations in lower and midtown Manhattan are like this. My feeling is it falls under WP:NOT to mention the exact location of CitiBike stations. Epicgenius (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
    • Totally fair. Just thought it was worth discussing.--Found5dollar (talk) 18:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
      • Yeah. My response is not intended as a criticism of your comment, but just noting that such details might be considered minutiae given the context. If Citi Bike is indeed mentioned, it would have to be a passing mention (e.g. a notation that Citi Bike stalls are indeed nearby, but not the exact location of the stalls). However, I think the trend for transit stations is rarely to mention bike share or taxi services except where such things are particularly notable. Epicgenius (talk) 21:16, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
• "Located at Park Avenue South and 28th Street" should this be "Located on Park Avenue South at 28th Street" since the platform runs under Park ave?
  • Done.

History

• I find the second paragraph under "Construction and opening" a little looping. I kept getting caught on the word "section" and it feels like the first sentence and the last sentence are kind of saying the same thing, that this station was built on the first line as one of the first stations. I don't have exact wordage that would make this flow better but i think it is work another look at to see if it can be a little clearer.
  • It is indeed part of the first line, but the first line does not only include the original 28 stops. Nevertheless, I'm going to change the wording now. Epicgenius (talk) 21:16, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
• After reading the construction section I am left wondering what construction method was used to make the station/surrounding tunnel. I'm assuming it was cut-and-cover and not a tunnel boring machine or anything. It would be nice to have this included here.
  • It was indeed cut-and-cover. I had not included that since most of the stations were built as cut-and-cover, but I will add this to the article later. Epicgenius (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
• "In 1918, the Lexington Avenue Line opened north of Grand Central–42nd Street, thereby dividing the original line into an "H" system." what is an "H" system? is it based on the shape of the lines on a map or is it something more in-depth?
  • After this service was split, the IRT system resembled the form of an "H" when viewed from above. I will fix this later. Epicgenius (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
• "Platforms at local stations, such as the 28th Street station, were lengthened by between 20 to 30 feet (6.1 to 9.1 m). Both platforms were extended to the north and south." is there an exact amount for this station in particular or do we only have this general figure? I also looked at page 108 of the cited reference and these figures do not appear just that "The work at this station has consisted of extending all four corners of the platforms into the electric manholes."
  • This figure was added per WP:CALC by comparing the minimum and maximum lengthening of local stations along the line, but I will fix that later. Basically, the electric manholes are service passageways on the side walls of the tunnel. In reality, the "extensions" merely expanded the tiles a few feet into the tunnel. Epicgenius (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
• Woah. The bombing of the station is a crazy historic fact I didn't know. I read the cites and feel like another sentence or two could probably be included talking about the notes sent to media about the bombing and other facts. Was anyone injured by the blast? It feels like this incident deserves a paragraph in and of itself separate from the new entrances and platform extension.
  • I have added some info about that. Epicgenius (talk) 21:16, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
• "A staircase and elevator from street level to the southbound platform was added with the construction of 400 Park Avenue South, a residential tower at the southwestern corner of Park Avenue South and 28th Street.[27] The tower was completed in 2015.[28]" Was the staircase and elevator opened at the same time that the tower was completed or did they open before or after? This just feels a bit ambiguous.
  • Clarified. I believe they opened before, but I haven't found a reliable source to support this. Epicgenius (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
• "renovations of 57th and 23rd Streets on the IND Sixth Avenue Line; 28th Street on the IRT Lexington Avenue Line, and 34th Street–Penn Station on the IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line and IND Eighth Avenue Line." is that first ";" supposed to be a comma?
  • Fixed.
• Is it worth mentioning the lawsuits from the Enhanced Station Initiative for not bringing stations to full ADA compliance? This station was fully renovated but the northbound platform still has no elevator.
  • I considered adding that. Unfortunately, it would fall under WP:SYNTH as the sources do not mention 28th Street directly (this issue came up in the past with other articles). The 23rd Street station one stop south is fully accessible, so 28th Street would have been lower on the list of stations prioritized for ADA improvements. The 400 Park Avenue South elevator was a developer project and was only added because the developer was constructing a skyscraper above a station in a high-density neighborhood. Epicgenius (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
    • great. makes sense.--Found5dollar (talk) 18:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Station layout

• "The 6 stops here at all times,[37] rush-hour and midday <6> trains stop here in the peak direction;[37] and the 4 stops here during late nights.[38]" again, is that ";" supposed to be a comma?
  • Fixed.
• "The platforms were originally 200 feet (61 m) long, as at other local stations on the original IRT,[9]:4[2]:3 but later became 520 feet (160 m) long.[23]" is "became" the right word here? They didn't transform themselves. maybe "but later were extended to"
  • Done.

Design

• "There is a 1-inch (25 mm) gap between the trough wall and the platform walls," what is this gap for?
  • I'm not sure. This is standard among the majority of cut-and-cover stations, but I've yet to find why such a gap exists. Epicgenius (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
    • Ok. --Found5dollar (talk) 18:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
• "The fare control is at platform level and there are no open crossunders or crossovers. However, there is a closed crossunder about halfway between each platform, which was constructed during the 1940s and is sealed." This "However" seems very awkward. I don't think it is needed.
  • Removed.
• A wikilink to what "faience" is would be helpful.
  • Added.
• "The far southern end of the southbound platform has equare ceramic tiles topped by marble belt courses." should be "square ceramic tiles"
  • Fixed.
• "The decorative work was performed by faience contractor Grueby Faience Company.[40]:35 The ceilings of the fare control areas once contained plaster molding,[40]:10 although this has been removed." do we know when the molding was removed?
  • I don't, sadly. It may be in an internal NYCTA document, but this is such a minor detail that it wouldn't have been publicized. Epicgenius (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
    • Sad we don't have this info but if we don't have it we cant include it. --Found5dollar (talk) 18:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
• "as of the 2019 renovation, the fare control areas have modern black finishes.[2]:8" do we know what the black finishes are? paint? iron? ceramic?
  • Removed for now, since it was not in the source. Epicgenius (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
    • Added back in with a source.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 00:27, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
      • I don't know if a reference to just an image on Flickr where the text doesn't even mention the color of the new finishes really cuts it. After a quick google there are dozens of news articles about the renovation that mention the new finishes. I found [1] and [2] with an incredibly quick google. Im sure there are even better cites that coudl be found with minorly more effort than i just put in. --Found5dollar (talk) 18:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
        • I've replaced Flickr with the Untapped reference. Epicgenius (talk) 23:04, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
• Is there a reason blue was chosen for so much of the tile design? does it have any meaning with the IRT?
  • Generally, each station had a distinctive color pattern, but the tile color itself doesn't have any particular meaning. Epicgenius (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
    • I want there to be some magnificent story about the colors but if there isn't one there isn't one! thanks for explaining.--Found5dollar (talk) 18:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
      • Yeah, sadly these tile colors aren't in a particular pattern, unlike the faience plaques at most of the original IRT stations, which are specific to each station. The colors were meant to be decorative and distinguishing, but otherwise, the colors at each station weren't selected for a site-specific purpose. Epicgenius (talk) 23:04, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
• Who is the artist for "Seven Ways 4 Twenty-Eighth"? I'd love a bit more info on this artwork and what it looks like. just like a sentence to being it inline with the other artwork.
  • Added.

General

• Per Earwig's Copyvio detector there seems to be two unattributed quoted sentences used verbatim from a source:
  • "Under the 2015–2019 MTA Capital Plan, the station underwent a complete overhaul as part of the Enhanced Station Initiative, and was entirely closed for several months."
  • "However, the MTA Board temporarily deferred the vote for these packages after city representatives refused to vote to award the contracts."
    • The source copies from us. If you examine closely, that is a SEO spam page with nonsense Wikipedia text. The fact that it's from Global Impact UK, which seems to be otherwise legitimate, may be misleading, but the text "Bus 167 full details to 167Q NEW YORK I-95 EXPRES on 2020-12-07 Which are Bus 167 bus stations?" is not something a reliable source would say. Epicgenius (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
      • Ah. They got me. Apolgies. --Found5dollar (talk) 18:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Images

• Per Alt Viewer none of your images have alt text. this is needed for accessibility reasons.
• The placement of the first image, "The 28th Street station in 1904" is causing sandwiching between it and the infobox. This should be avoided.
  • Fixed both. Epicgenius (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

I still have to go through the "Exits" section, the sources, and look at the images more closely but its seems pretty good so far! ill be back later with more.--Found5dollar (talk) 21:15, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

OK, here is the rest of my review:

Exits

• In the first two paragraph it feels like you tell us the stairs are at the 28th street corner upwards of six times. is there a way to streamline this so it isn't quite so repetitive?
  • Fixed.
• You talk about the fair control areas but it leaves me wondering about if OMNY card readers are installed at this station or when they were installed.
  • For all stations, OMNY readers were installed between 2019 and 2020, and that info is in the OMNY article. In fact, the NYC Subway station infobox used to have a notation about whether a station had OMNY, but that quickly became quite useless as the OMNY equipment at all stations was activated within two years of the initial rollout. Epicgenius (talk) 23:04, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
• Is the New York Life Building exit operated by the MTA or by the building? Is that why it closes?
  • It is operated by the building owner. Epicgenius (talk) 23:04, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Images again

• It would be super helpful in the two multiple image boxes to have titles explaining what the images are comparing. I'd suggest simple titles like "Station tile sign details" and "station entrances"
  • Done.
• "These stairs also contain next-train countdown clocks and neighborhood wayfinding maps at the exterior of each entrance, which were installed in the 2019 renovation.[43]" If you have any, I think it would be valuable to include an image of this kind of countdown clock exterior as it is so different from the ones you already have images of displayed.
  • I plan to do that in the future. These countdown clocks are newer style LCD displays like those used on lettered subway routes (which is also trivia), but I agree it's interesting. Epicgenius (talk) 23:04, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
• All images have correct licensing and one is in the public domain (1905)

References

• The few references I can't access assumed to be appropriate in good faith.
• All references are complete and formatted well.
• 36. " Dougherty, Peter (2006) [2002]. Tracks of the New York City Subway 2006 (3rd ed.). Dougherty. OCLC 49777633 – via Google Books." what does the "(2006) [2002]" mean?
  • The edition being referenced was published in 2006, but the first edition was in 2002. Epicgenius (talk) 23:04, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
• 43. "Enhanced Stations Initiative: Community Board 6" (PDF). cbsix.org. Metropolitan Transportation Authority. June 13, 2018. p. 11. Retrieved November 19, 2018." "cbsix.org" is in italics, should it be? should it just be "Community board six"?
  • Yep, I've fixed that. Epicgenius (talk) 23:04, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
• Check in on that reference I mentioned above in the History section.
• I randomly chose 5 additional references and they matched up with the cited source.
• In the nav boxes the first and most prominent one is "Structures on Park Avenue in Manhattan" shouldn't that one be under the nave boxes about the subway just to keep the most relevant ones at the top?

That's it for now! --Found5dollar (talk) 00:32, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: Thanks for responding to all my comments and issues. It seems you have cleared everything up from my end. I'm going to do one last comb through the article to make sure the new additions didn't cause any other issues/ to find anything I may have missed the first time.--Found5dollar (talk) 17:52, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

last few things

• Construction and opening - "The section from Great Jones Street to a point 100 feet (30 m) north of 33rd Street had been awarded to Holbrook, Cabot & Daly Contracting Company, while the remaining section to 41st Street was to be done by Ira A. Shaker.[10] " "Had been awarded" and "was to be done" are passive voice. Should be "was awarded" and "was done" unless that becomes factually incorrect.
  • Done.
• Design - "Two works of art were installed in this station. The first was a glass block wall artwork at the main fare control by Gerald Marks, entitled Seven Waves 4 Twenty-Eight. It was installed during station renovations in 1996.[2]:7 The second was Roaming Underfoot, a glass mosaic mural on the platform walls by Nancy Blum. It showcases flora in the Madison Square Park Conservancy's Perennial Collection, and was installed in 2018 during renovations.[45]" this whole paragraph is in past tense while the rest of the section is in present tense. I'd suggest moving this to present tense as the artwork is still there.
  • Marks's artwork is no longer installed in the station. I've added that with a reference. I've changed Blum's artwork to present tense. Epicgenius (talk) 14:42, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
• Nav boxes - Just take a look at the order of these boxes. I feel like the ones about the subway are more important than the one about Park Ave so should probably be the ones at the top. I don't know if there is actually a best practice with this so it is totally just my opinion.
  • I agree and have moved the navboxes. I thought I had already done that. Epicgenius (talk) 14:42, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

That's it! This should be good once these two or three last notes are responded to. Thanks! --Found5dollar (talk) 18:12, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Found5dollar, thanks for the response. Sorry for not pinging you when I was done, as I had forgotten. I will fix these shortly. Epicgenius (talk) 20:10, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Found5dollar, thanks for the review and for your patience. I have addressed these issues now. Epicgenius (talk) 14:42, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: Great! this all seems good to me now! congrats on such a great article.--Found5dollar (talk) 16:59, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
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