Talk:2024 Israeli military operation in the West Bank

Lede

@Galamore: why did you remove the perpetrator of the occupation in the opening paragraph? And why did you add “counterterrorism” POV to it? And why did you add an entire POV paragraph sourced to Israeli websites? Makeandtoss (talk) 20:00, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Since when do we discriminate against reliable sources based on their country of origin? Should we stop using Al Jazeera as well? And by the way, counterterrorism label seems to be supported by multiple reliable sources. ABHammad (talk) 06:44, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Since the existence of the conflict of interest principle. Calling ToI, Ynet and JP, which rely extensively and almost exclusively on Israeli military statements, are not to be considered reliable sources by any reasonable standard. Makeandtoss (talk) 08:49, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

It looks like someone invented a new rule. If these ssources undergo rigorous fact-checking they should not be judged solely on their country of origin. Meanwhile, I see a liberal use of Al Jazeera, which, according to our policy, many on Wikipedia recognize as a biased source on the Arab-Israeli conflict. ABHammad (talk) 04:33, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

AJ is green at RSN and was snow closed in a recent RFC as reliable for the IP conflict so its reliability is not in question. AJ is also not a "side" in the conflict, which Israel is, so it would be better if there were at least one non Israeli source, do you have one? Selfstudier (talk) 09:17, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

It is biased but reliable, and in the case of this war (with focus on Gaza) it is the only source to be used given the lack of other outlet’s boots on the ground within the region The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 09:23, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

"Rigorous fact checking" like when JP claimed a dead Palestinian girl was a doll, or when ToI laundered for months the Hamas HQ below Al-Shifa lie. No one is judging them on their country of origin, a classic accusation to stifle any criticism of Israel; Haaretz is considered a reliable source on WP and I would not object to it being referenced here. AJ is reliable per WP. So please, do not make any further false claims beyond these two just debunked ones. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:14, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Terror

The PIJ named their operation Horror of the Camps رعب المخيمات, not Terror of the Camps; Al Mayadeen, and particularly Ro'ya's lousy churnalism, are not reliable sources in any aspect, whether related or unrelated to the conflict. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:34, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Not direct translations but both can work, رعب is horror, رهب is terror The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 05:27, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

"The Israeli operation came about following a failed suicide bombing in Tel Aviv by a Hamas operative, and calls by Hamas for the renewel of suicide attacks."

"Renewel", seriously? If you're going to write propaganda, at least spell it right. 21fafs (talk) 16:44, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Fixed the spelling and tagged for possible synth, however please properly present edit requests in future and avoid making speeches. Selfstudier (talk) 17:42, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 August 2024

"Terror of the Camps" to "Horror of the Camps" per WP:ALMAYADEEN and WP:TERRORIST.

Another argument for "Horror" is that it is the classical translation of «رعب» and my reference for that is the Arabic version Wikipedia articles titles that contain "Horror" in their english version. "Terror" is usually the classical translation for «إرهاب» — 🧀Cheesedealer ^!!!⚟ 17:52, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done It has been done already, so I'll just mark this done. Ilovefood123123 (talk) 10:18, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Current event tag

Self-explanatory but for the sake of completeness: this is an ongoing conflict of total duration so far <48h. The tag really should have been placed there from the outset. AllPurposeScientist^blah 17:58, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

@AllPurposeScientist: The tag really should have been placed there from the outset It was and was subsequently removed because not many editors are editing/commenting, still the case so Idk why you have restored it. Selfstudier (talk) 18:03, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

My understanding of the current event tag was to warn users that the article may not be current. If nobody is making new contributions then all the more reason to add it until an appropriate amount of time has passed, then revisit as a draft, stub, or merge. AllPurposeScientist^blah 18:03, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 1 September 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Frost 16:10, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

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2024 Israeli military operation in the northern West Bank → 2024 Israeli military operation in the West Bank – While the invasion of the West Bank was initially mainly in the North, it is has now spread to the entirety of the region. As @The Great Mule of Eupatoria map shows, and as various sources are beginning to report (https://www.timesofisrael.com/3-killed-in-southern-west-bank-shooting-attack-idf-pursuing-gunmen/) (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-west-bank-police.html) the incursion is now also in Hebron in the south. These sources connect the latest attack to the wider invasion of the West Bank. Genabab (talk) 13:27, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Support there has been recent activity in Hebron which is in the south, just today there was resistance targeting three Israeli security forces in the city and it has expanded operations there

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/least-two-israelis-killed-west-bank-shooting-attack-medics-say-2024-09-01/

my only suggestion is: should it be operation or invasion? I’m not sure if it’s large enough to be considered as the latter but it is larger scale than previous raids The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 15:07, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Obvious support but first, I think the revert by @Galamore: of my move that removed "northern" was unwarranted; can you support your claim by providing evidence showing how RS titles have used "northern" first? Makeandtoss (talk) 13:43, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support Should be uncontroversial. The current title is WP:OVERPRECISE regardless, but as others have said, there is also fighting in the southern part of the West Bank. Gödel2200 (talk) 15:09, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Support as more concise and with "northern" being somewhat unnecessary. Moreover, operations have begun in the south now, so it's moved on. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request for infobox casualty figure

The number of confirmed terrorists/insurgents killed is out of date and should be updated in the infobox. According to one of the most recent reports by the ISW, "Hamas stated that Israeli forces have killed at least 30 Palestinian fighters in the West Bank since August 28..."

Source: https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/iran-update-september-3-2024 (see paragraph in section on West Bank) Nathan1223 (talk) 07:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Bunnypranav (talk) 14:50, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I included the source above. Please change "At least 14 insurgents killed" to "At least 30 insurgents killed" under the Casualties and Losses section of the infobox. Thank you. Nathan1223 (talk) 15:04, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

what happened to the MAGAV members who were KIA?

It seems as though someone deleted the 3 Israeli occupation police officers who were killed in a driveby shooting in the occupied West Bank. Those should count towards Israeli military casualties as well.

99.237.230.117 (talk) 18:08, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

addendum-- I see the article on what I'm talking about, but for some reason the MAGAV who were killed are only described as "wounded". Wondering if someone can change the description to "KIA" instead to reflect the headline? 99.237.230.117 (talk) 18:37, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Allenby Bridge shooting

Are the three who were shot by the Jordanian national at Allenby Bridge not officially employees of the israeli security apparatus? As in uniformed border personnel? 99.237.230.117 (talk) 18:10, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 24 September 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) Alpha3031 (t • c) 07:06, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

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2024 Israeli military operation in the West Bank → Operation Summer Camps – While the operation has been given two names (by the two sides) "Operation Summer Camps" appears to be the name most widely used in sources. (Simply look up "Operation Summer Camps" vs "Horror of the Camps operation" in Google news to see what I mean.) Additionally, using the Israeli name of the operation is also in parallel to Operation Defensive Shield, which is, interestingly, the other big large-scale West Bank operation to which this ongoing one has been compared to. Evaporation123 (talk) 04:51, 24 September 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Arnav Bhate (talk • contribs) 17:27, 2 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 08:36, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Support. The current title, in my opinion, is too broad given how many military operations Israel has regularly launched into the West Bank in 2024. In addition, Wikipedia has had no problem referring to Israeli military operations in past wars by their Israeli name, such as with Operation Defensive Shield, so I don’t see a reason why this war’s naming process should be different. SpiderMandem (talk) 16:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

(I am not strongly in favor of such a potential move- it is more so a recommendation based on observations.) Evaporation123 (talk) 04:51, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Makes it clearer what the article is about, and "operation summer camps" make it sound something nice, which many would question. PatGallacher (talk) 12:48, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

  To be fair, it doesn't really matter what vibe the name gives off, it's simply the name of the operation Evaporation123 (talk) 20:52, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Nowadays we refrain from using names given by the sides in favor of descriptive titles. I see no reason to depart from that practice. Selfstudier (talk) 17:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per the points already raised, and also simply because for the average reader the proposed title means nothing. It's good enough for an AKA in the lead but nothing more. - Ïvana (talk) 01:08, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Infobox casualties

We should either put both sides' civilian casualties in the bottom section, or we should both sides' civilian casualties alongside the military ones. I support the latter option. But currently, we have Israeli civilian casualties alongside the military ones, while Palestinian military casualties separated.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 06:29, 25 September 2024 (UTC)