Talk:2019–20 Premier League

Locked?

Should this article be locked down until say March? Govvy (talk) 23:08, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

If I or someone else notices this type of editing behaviour in the future, locking it should be considered and I don't see any definite probability that any clubs are confirmed yet. --Iggy (Swan) 22:15, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Vandalism

There is a lot of vandalism that has been happening in this page as of late and it's coming from users using visible IP addresses. My suggestion is that this article should be locked for unregistered users in order to avoid massive vandalism. What do y'all think? TB Chigz (talk) 17:32, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Captains

Aston Villa and Manchester United had captains that were both injured at the end of last season (James Chester and Antonio Valencia). Valencia will now leave United but Chester is still at Villa. Grealish and Young were clearly captains at the end of last season but no official announcement has been made about who will be captain next season. I think we should have both Captains as TBC/TBA until an official announcement is made. What do you think? JamesVilla44 (talk) 09:38, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Aston Villa have released a Media Day video showing James Chester wearing the armband. This would support that he is still considered the club captain, and I am updating accordingly. Exoterror (talk) 06:40, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

I’ve watched it and I would consider it acceptable as a source. JamesVilla44 (talk) 12:26, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

I'm definitely fighting a losing war on this one. Another article from the club referring to him as skipper but I'm not going to make this change again with others fighting to get Grealish listed there. Exoterror (talk) 14:14, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Position by Round table

Seeing as this has been added a couple of times : every Premier League article since at least 2007-08 has a section on its talk page asking the same question (and has been raised on WT:FOOTY at least 3 times). People argue each way, but the current consensus is to NOT include this table (due to a mixture of WP:NOTSTATS and difficulties of what to do when games get moved). Feel free to discuss here some more, but until there is clear consensus to include it the table will keep being removed. Spike 'em (talk) 22:05, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

This is like Brexit. Some want it and can't have it. Some don't want it and say so. Some say we should try again to see if people still want it. Would suggest the way forward for those that want the position by round included is to come up with a firm proposal and let interested editors decide and thereby reach consensus.--Egghead06 (talk) 08:17, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Yay, democracy! – PeeJay 14:19, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Just removed again, please feel free to discuss (again). Spike 'em (talk) 12:19, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

I think we should include it. 2018-19 La Liga includes it and I consider it a very good quality page. JamesVilla44 (talk) 14:00, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

I would be happy to help with editing one throughout the season JamesVilla44 (talk) 14:01, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

No thanks, a good few editors don't want it. Govvy (talk) 14:08, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Its presence here has been turned down 12 years in a row, I don't see a need for it now. Spike 'em (talk) 15:29, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

November awards?

Have they not been released yet? Govvy (talk) 11:10, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

nothing here yet. Spike 'em (talk) 14:49, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

interim managers

Why are we removing the information for the interim managers? I still think that's important info, Govvy (talk) 17:16, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Red cards

The PL site seems inconsistent with regards to red cards. It has Spurs on 3 red cards on the team list, but only 2 players (with one each) on the player list. I assume this is down to Son Heung-min having a red card rescinded. I've removed him from the list of most Reds, but is this the correct thing to do? Do any other WP:RS sites show these particular stats? Spike 'em (talk) 10:40, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

It has ben pointed out that the PL page for Son Heung-min says 2 reds. Given this internal inconsistency, does anyone have any reliable secondary sources that can cast some light on this?

Actually, his page for this season alone says 1 red, he was also sent off once last season.

Does anyone agree or disagree with removing him from the list?

Has this happened in previous seasons? Spike 'em (talk) 14:58, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

References

Positions by Round

Hi I know that this has been brought up before but why isn't there a "Positions by round" section? Last time it was turned down because people didn't want it. however it does not make any sense that it is not allowed on this page when just about every other major league in the world seems to have a section devoted to it on their pages. I suggest a proper vote on the matter to reach a true consensus. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 19:54, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

You think we haven't had one? – PeeJay 21:06, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

As mentioned above, it had been discussed in each of the last 11 seasons and there had never been consensus to add it. Spike 'em (talk) 23:17, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

So if I remove these "Positions by Round" tables from other pages (say La Liga) do you think that it will be approved? If not then that in its self is a damned good reason as to why there should be one on this page and indeed all other Premier League season articles REDMAN 2019 (talk) 11:27, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Also although it has been consistently removed the fact that it has been added so many times shows that there are a lot of users who would like to see such a section added. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 11:32, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

And lots of users are against adding this, I don't think position by round should be on the other articles either. Articles are suppose to be written in a prose form, not have endless amounts of tables with numbers. Govvy (talk) 11:45, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

So I remove them? REDMAN 2019 (talk) 11:53, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

We already have the league table, anything more on the same data can be classed as excessive which falls under WP:NOSTATS. I think a few people have tried to remove those Pos by Round's on other articles before, but they seem to end up back on. And the core group that contribute and talk at WT:FOOTBALL really don't want the Pos by rounds on articles. Govvy (talk) 12:39, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

There is a ongoing discussion about this at WT:FOOTY see here. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 11:13, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Manchester City

The league table states the 5th placed team will qualify for the Champions League but this is subject to change depending on Manchester City's position in the league and it is also dependent on the appeal. Regardless, it hasn't been confirmed that the 5th placed team would join the Champions League, so surely this needs to be amended? (Z2a (talk) 21:22, 16 February 2020 (UTC))

REDMAN 2019 (talk) 16:44, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Isn't there is still an appeal? Or did that happen already? And should we not wait till after the appeal to change that? Govvy (talk) 16:49, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Surely we should be driven by what the RSes are showing? A very quick check on BBC, Guardian, Mail & Premier League websites all show the top-4 as it stands highlighted. Spike 'em (talk) 17:40, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Currently Manchester City are banned from all European competitions until 2022. Unless they appeal successfully the decision stands. And that means that the 5th place team will qualify for the Champions League in their place. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 11:57, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Do you have a source that quotes UEFA or PL saying that this will be the case? It is not our place to speculate what may happen. Spike 'em (talk) 12:22, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Their are several references to the 5th place team qualifying for the UCL. And UEFA has been quoted saying that the 5th place team will qualify for the UCL .Also I noticed that on the 2020–21 UEFA Champions League page it shows that the fifth place team from England will participate in the competition. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 10:56, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Another WP article is not a reliable source, and that Times article uses "UEFA sources", rather that quoting a named individual or a statement by UEFA itself. This is still speculation. Spike 'em (talk) 11:12, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

It's not speculation, see Article 4.08 of the Champions League regulations. "A club which is not admitted to the competition is replaced by the next best-placed club in the top domestic championship of the same association, provided the new club fulfils the admission criteria. In this case, the access list is adjusted accordingly." S.A. Julio (talk) 19:02, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you REDMAN 2019 (talk) 19:14, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Should I remove the 5th place qualification then? REDMAN 2019 (talk) 18:14, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

I think it should be change back to normal till Man City appeal has been sorted. Govvy (talk) 18:18, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Done REDMAN 2019 (talk) 18:35, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Either the normal European qualification based on league position should be displayed (including for Manchester City, i.e. 1 to 4 qualifying for CL and 5th for EL), or the qualification should be shifted to list Man City as not qualifying (i.e. 1 and 3-5 for CL, 6 for EL). As of now, UEFA's ban stands, so it probably wouldn't make sense to have Man City listed in a CL spot. S.A. Julio (talk) 19:02, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Also see page 28 of the UEFA Statutes (February 2018 Edition).

• XIII. Recognition of the UEFA Statutes, Disputes
  • 3. Disputes of European Dimension
    • Article 62: CAS as Appeals Arbitration Body
      • ⁵ Suspensory Effect: An appeal shall not have any suspensory effect as a stay of execution of a disciplinary sanction, subject to the power of the CAS to order that any disciplinary sanction be stayed pending the arbitration.

So unless CAS decide to stay the decision, the ban from European competition remains in place. S.A. Julio (talk) 16:35, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

References

Corona virus section

At the moment that's at the bottom, should it not be the first section after lead as it's just prose? Govvy (talk) 11:50, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

@REDMAN 2019: Umm, bottom of the article just above the references! Govvy (talk) 12:53, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

;) REDMAN 2019 (talk) 12:58, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Is that better? REDMAN 2019 (talk) 12:58, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Looks a lot better like that, don't know why I didn't move it myself! Cheers. Govvy (talk) 14:22, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

@Spike 'em: I really think one or the other sentence between the two section need to be less of a copy then, because you are effectively repeating the same sentence two paragraphs later, this is really, really bad English. I strongly suggest you have a look at that edit you restored!! Govvy (talk) 15:06, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

I've merged the 2 mentions of CV in the lead. Spike 'em (talk) 17:22, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Why is the coronavirus info still in the lead? shouldn't it be kept in the Effects of the 2019–0 coronavirus pandemic section? REDMAN 2019 (talk) 16:47, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

The lead should summarise the rest of the article.Spike 'em (talk) 16:49, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Ok REDMAN 2019 (talk) 16:50, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

But checking the history, it does seem that editors are adding detail to the lead directly, instead of putting most of the information in the section, which is also incorrect Spike 'em (talk) 16:54, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

The Premier league will certainly restart on the 17th of June. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cupper52 (talk • contribs) 14:29, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Yep, we know. – PeeJay 20:51, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Man City ban

It's gone past the 8 June which was on the note. I am not sure on what happened, are they still banned? Govvy (talk) 11:37, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

CAS will decide in July.[1].--Egghead06 (talk) 11:50, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

So... What are we updating the comment to under the league table, it still says 8 June for the hearing on the EPSN citation. Govvy (talk) 11:56, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

I have updated the note. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 14:14, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Jürgen Klopp

Hi in case anyone hasn't noticed Jürgen Klopp just became the first German manager to win the premier league. actually he's the first German manager to win the English top flight including the old first division. Surely that notable enough to be included in the article. The only problem is that the pundits and newspapers don't seem to have noticed and I cant find a source, but you only have to look at the records to see it's true. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 17:24, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

It's just trivia. If you can't find a source, that should tell you all you need to know about how noteworthy the stat is. After all, simply being true is not the qualifier for a stat to be included on Wikipedia. – PeeJay 18:38, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

There are many such sources in German, e.g. Spiegel: "Klopp ist zudem der erste deutsche Trainer, der ein englisches Team zum Meister macht." (Rough translation: "Moreover, Klopp is the first German manager to lead an English team to national championship.") --141.100.201.16 (talk) 14:11, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Well yeah, because it's important to Germans that a German coach just won the Premier League for the first time. But in general, it's not particularly important. – PeeJay 20:21, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

So if some English manager won the Bundesliga and it was a big thing in Britain would you say it was important? REDMAN 2019 (talk) 09:57, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

No, not really. I'd think it was important if no foreign manager had ever won the title before, but Klopp is hardly original in that regard. Yes, it's novel that a German has finally won the league as a coach, but it's not encyclopaedic. It makes sense to put it in his article, but not here. – PeeJay 10:20, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Fair enough. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 13:36, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Table

Hi all, it seems to me that the league table is incorrect (the teams from 15th (Brighton) to 18th (Aston Villa) have one more win and one less loss than they should, according to the official Premier League table), however I am not sure how to edit it to resolve this - can someone help with this? Rsmith871 (talk) 12:27, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

References

Rsmith871 An IP user had changed the values in Template:2019–20 Premier League table, which I've reverted. So it should now be showing correctly. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:45, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Joseph2302 Ah, I see now, cheers. Rsmith871 (talk) 12:51, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Leicester's captain?

Kasper Schmeichel is listed as Leicester's captain. Is this strictly accurate? Granted, Wes Morgan doesn't play many games any more but I'm struggling to find any official source naming Schmeichel as the permanent, bona fide club captain. Is anyone able to clarify this matter, and change the table accordingly? 2.25.38.89 (talk) 20:28, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

I can't find any sources naming Schmeichel as club captain. It seems that Morgen is still the captain with Schmeichel vice-captain and due to the fact that Wes Morgen very rarely plays Schmeichel is usually captaining the team on the pitch giving the false impression that he is the captain. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 10:43, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Liverpool stats

Liverpool no longer have an ongoing sequence of home wins due to the draw with Burnley - can this be corrected? I'd also suggest the fact about the 23-point lead at one point of the season isn't notable and should be removed, as only the final winning margin is a notable fact.Clear air turbulence (talk) 21:24, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

I think the temporary 23-point lead is significant enough to stay - it's still an all-time record, and it was (AFAIR) the lead they had at the time when they clinched the title. It's not unusual for a team to play worse afterwards as the results "no longer matter", and Liverpool is a clear example for this (they lost only one match in the whole season before clinching the title, but already two in the few games afterwards). But clearly both records have to be changed to past tense now. --141.100.184.41 (talk) 11:32, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Look, this so-called "Premier" foolishness makes me tired. It is exactly the same competition that it has been since the beginning in 1888-89, back when Everton's home ground was Anfield. From the point of view of the competition, nothing whatsoever happened in the summer of 1992. Every team still plays every other team twice, once at home and once away. In short, this is the *SECOND* time Liverpool have won the League in June. The first was 1946-47, after the gruesome winter caused unparalleled delays (up until recently) to the programme. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anodeenzyme (talk • contribs) 07:38, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

It's not the same competition, and no amount of name-calling will change that. The Premier League was founded in 1992 as a new division above the old First Division, it's not just a rebranding of the old First Division. The Premier League has only been won in June once. Thanks. – PeeJay 13:00, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2020

In the "Summary" section, the very last line (Ironically, all three relegated teams were the same teams that were promoted to the Premier League for the 2015–16 season.) - that is the wrong use of the word 'ironically.' The proper word would be 'coincidentally.' 70.74.172.48 (talk) 19:54, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 02:02, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

LMA Manager of the Year

Should the LMA Manager of the Year award be included in the awards section? Because I head that Jürgen Klopp won the award, but it is not listed under “annual awards.” Paul Vaurie (talk) 19:21, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

League positions

Man City appear top of the table in this article despite Liverpool winning 2605:8D80:666:28A6:8944:ED75:E12B:1C1A (talk) 12:23, 25 May 2023 (UTC)