Talk:2018 Anchorage earthquake

Thanks for starting this.

Odd that this year will be bookended by two of the worst quakes in recent memory. At least this one wasn't in the middle of the night. These things tend to feel longer in the moment but this felt like a very long quake to me down in Homer. We're not seeing h kind of destruction they got further north, but it was a long, strong shake. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:07, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Image of damage

I'd really appreciate if an editor from Anchorage would take a picture and post it here. Or any free photos of damage. Alex of Canada (talk) 22:07, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Added Template:Image requested at the top. --Walk Like an Egyptian (talk) 23:57, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

I've seen a ton of stuff online today but nothing I could say was free. There's a ton of pictures of a car that sank as the Minnesota Drive offramp gave way, maybe one of those is free ro we could persuade someone to release it. Beeblebrox (talk) 07:26, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

The Alaska DOT&PF has a few low-quality shots that are CC-BY. SounderBruce 08:46, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

This is seeming like it is becoming the iconic image and story from this event. (and the driver is from my town). The image in the story is not free but there's several other shots of the same scene out there on social media, might be worth tryng to track down a photographer and see if they'd release the rights. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:11, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

I tried but so far nobody I contacted has responded at all. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:14, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the objective is here. The USGS has over the years released higher-quality photos (in color, even) of the 1964 earthquake, yet folks appear to be stuck on using that same shot with the Our Town banner hanging over Fourth Avenue merely because that image appears everywhere else. Is the ultimate objective to create a website which looks and reads like every other website? If so, count me out. Quite a few of those DOTPF photos have nothing wrong with them, appear to perfectly serve an educational purpose and were taken in locations critical to a reader's understanding of the extent of damage. Someone recently spammed Commons with close to 2,000 photos from that very same photostream, many of them poorly described and/or poorly categorized and/or having quality or scope issues. So what exactly is the problem? RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 03:14, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

No problem, and I'm going to upload some of those now. Any image is better than no image so far as I'm concerned and some of those are fairly compelling. But I'm not giving up on the Minnesota Drive thing either. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:03, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

I uploaded three images from that feed. Feel free to play with the placement in the article, I just kind of stuck them in. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:31, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Was doing my usual daily-or-so check of new uploads and saw File:Alaska National Guard (32288950138).jpg, which I probably wouldn't have found otherwise due to the erratic categorization. I assume this is Vine Road. Unlike the tighter aerial shots taken by commercial photographers, this provides a good context of the folly of building a road in such a spot, something hinted at but not fully explored in news reports thus far. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 05:51, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Okay, comparing that view with Google Street View, it appears to be approximately 61.568238°N 149.601803°W / 61.568238; -149.601803. I was supposed to travel down that way until the earthquake and a few other things changed my plans, so I'm basically guessing. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 06:35, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

move?

As a resident of Anchorage, I think its premature.

Local area such as Point McKinze or Goose Lake are more appropriate.

Note we have a 7.9 Gulf quake that can also be South Central.

Let the residents of Anchorage, Mat Valley, Eagle River, Chugach, Peter Creek come to a consensus.

While I do not believe Anchorage Earthquake Label is correct, by far the most people were affected in Anchorage as its vastly larger than Wasilla (next largest and closer) - 2018 Knik Arm Earthquake also suffices nicely.

The quake does not belong to any single one, Mat Valley proper residential was further from the epicenter than Anchorage was. Claims we got more damage are not appropriate.

I will also add that while it was Severe, we are not hugely impacted (valley resident commuter inconvenience aside) - severely damaged is abused massively here. Miner damage as incredible as it is despite the severity of the quake (distance wise extremely close though 27 miles depth) - a few roads damaged, one house cracked a glue lam beam, broken stuff but other than schools (why them) buildings have no damage (99%) and little damage for the rest.

I Will say South Central Is the region that was hit by the quake. I think the name may fit if there was no quake larger then the quake that hit the region this year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.35.123.111 (talk) 04:39, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eddystone3006 (talk • contribs) 03:50, 4 December 2018 (UTC) 

Requested move 4 December 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: snowball close, obviously not going to happen at this time. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:46, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

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2018 Anchorage earthquake → 2018 South Central Alaska earthquake – Adding this on behalf of @Wizzardkitty: whose reasoning was "Somone Please Move this page and rename it to 2018 South Central Alaska earthquake, This name does not fit because it is misleading and the earthquake did not just hid Anchorage." Beeblebrox (talk) 01:28, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

The more I think about this the more I agree. The epicenter was outside of Anchorage and much of the worst damage was up in the valley. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:37, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Support — It should be noted that my first read of the article appeared to be a strange attempt to portray this as strictly an Anchorage thing, even though it was then plainly obvious that the epicenter was in the Mat-Su Borough and that most of the serious damage was in and around Eagle River, Chugiak and Wasilla. The article at this moment not only confuses things unnecessarily, but also appears to arbitrarily define Anchorage by use of the term "city". Anchorage has clearly defined corporate boundaries which have been consistent since 1975. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 03:01, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

This article was created almost immediately after the event, because an editor must have known that this would have lasting notability. At the time of the earthquake, most of the Mat-Su Valley lacked electricity, so news was slow to come out of that part of the state. This article has been updated to include the significant damage that occurred out that way. On a side note, I am very much surprised that there is no Wikipedia article for the Palmer-Wasilla Highway. There probably should be.Juneau Mike (talk) 21:47, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Wait – At some point the quake shall receive an official designation. In the meantime most of us non-locals (eg most of us) will seek "Anchorage" quake. By the way best wishes to you locals, glad it wasn't 8.0. Thanks GeeBee60 (talk) 03:11, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

What does an official designation have to do with WP:COMMONNAME? My read is that we should discourage official names if there's a conflict. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 03:16, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Hmmm. We pretty easily use other notable earthquakes based on the USGS chosen names. They usually go pretty specific, and some news articles are already referring to the Point MacKenzie quake. Either way, it's up to the news and the officials, we just discern.

(I sure remember the quakes I've been in. Even a 5.2 gets one's attention, and a 7.0, yeah that resets the toggles. I may not recall every official or casual name, but I unforgettably know where I was each time. Sorry, sidetrack ... ) GeeBee60 (talk) 07:35, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Wait/Weak SupportI'm in favor of waiting until there's an official designation, but if there is none, I support changing the name. The epicenter was not in Anchorage and effects were across the region. If we go with "Southcentral" I think it should be one word, not "South Central." --Taralaska (talk) 21:38, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Oppose for now. The epicenter was closest to Anchorage. This evening I added new information regarding damage north of Anchorage. I am wintering in Anchorage, and felt it. It was a "doosy." Anyway, my !vote may change if new information comes out, but for now the title is sufficient. I hope everyone is safe.Juneau Mike (talk) 03:57, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose – Judging by the lead image on the article itself, the epicenter seems to be in the general area of Anchorage. The article talks mostly about Anchorage and describes significant damage to the city. Anchorage is the closest population center to the epicenter of the Earthquake, and seems to have suffered the most damage from the earthquake, and so it should be hinted at in the title. – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 04:46, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose for now - The epicentre was only 12 km north of Anchorage and most of the highest intensity of shaking was within the Anchorage metropolitan area. Anchorage also has more international recognition. Mikenorton (talk) 19:23, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose for now, though barring any changes it does seem this will continue to be called the 2018 Anchorage earthquake if not just the 2018 Alaska earthquake. ceranthor 19:28, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose – Chugiak and Eagle River areas are part of Anchorage since 1975. "Claims we got more damage are not appropriate." If Matsu had more economic damage, someone is putting a very high price tag on meth labs... Anchorage resident at a library near JBERS24.237.186.177 (talk) 22:21, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

"Meth labs"? Wow. This is certainly a NPOV violation. Juneau Mike (talk) 22:55, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

• Weak Oppose There's nothing particularly wrong with the current title nor the proposed title, but currently sources seem to be focusing on the earthquake's effects on Anchorage and Eagle River, or just mentioning that there was an earthquake in Alaska. Therefore, the current name at this point seems to be more recognizable than the proposed name (but that could change). There's a lot of earthquakes that take place in Alaska, so the current name would likely be what people would naturally search, and its precise enough so that people can find this article. The proposed name would probably do the same thing, but its(it's?) a lot less concise. Both seem fairly consistent in regards to naming earthquake articles, which is another part of the reason why this is a weak oppose. (Wasn't sure if I should stick this above or below the offtopic section, so sorry if I chose wrong) GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 04:41, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose The earthquake is most commonly associated with Anchorage and keeping this name is most likely to result in people finding info about the quake. IF there is an official designation later, I'd be open to that change. But if the decision is to change to "Southcentral" I think it should be one word, not "South Central." --Taralaska (talk) 21:38, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. The purpose of the title is identify the quake, distinguishing it from other notable quakes, not explain what area got hit the most absolutely hardest. "Anchorage" is where effectively all the media puts it, and this is, for most of the public, a more specific identifier than "south central" Alaska (where ever that is). ♦ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 00:57, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

In other words, mob rule. In this day and age of millions of media outlets all trying to copy each other, the broad range of outlets which have covered this story around the country and the world go with "Anchorage" because that may represent the extent of their familiarity with Alaska. The ADN, which continues to offer authoritative reporting and is not merely regurgitating wire service reports, has begun to call it the Point MacKenzie earthquake, consistent with the location of the epicenter. See stories on December 3 and December 4. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 02:58, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

There were but two ivotes in favor (yours, and I include Breeblebox as an implicit support), and eight against. (Two votes to "wait" for an official designation, but the closest we have to an "official" name is in the USGS- ANSS catalog, where a name has been supplied: "M 7.0 - 12km N of Anchorage, Alaska".) That 8 to 2 proportion represents a substantial consensus of the Wikipedia community, and for you to call that "mob rule" is highly disrespectful of the community. You might consider taking a small wikibreak until you are less stressed. Please note that any contestation of this result should start at the closer's Talk page, not here. ♦ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 20:44, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

As is attested to on my talk page, I have never been a big fan of the notability policy, although I realize it has its place. But one community policy I do strongly agree with is consensus. Consensus of the Wikipedia community was reached here. Calling this calmly reached decision, which was obtained after very reasoned discussion an example of "mob rule," shows a level of gall and arrogance that you don't often see in an intellectual endeavor. Juneau Mike (talk) 11:35, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

This "USGS cross sectional map" visually shows that Anchorage is closer than even the small communities nearby Anchorage https://earthquake.alaska.edu/sites/default/files/anch7_xcross-02_0.png 24.237.186.177 (talk) 20:05, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

after effects

Should we add a section on recovery efforts? We seem to have rebounded fairly quickly in many cases. The infamous Minnesota Drive ramp that collapsed and th portion of the Glenn Highway that broke off are already repaired. Most schools (which for some reason seemed to take a lot of damage, that probably bears looking into) are back open. Where I'm at the only real after effect was that food shipments were late and we ran out of chicken and organic veggies. [1] This is a real testament to the hard lessons learned from the '64 quake, it's incredible to me that nobody died and many major infrastructure repairs are already done. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Of course I should also note that this was nowhere near the intensity of the '64 quake, but here's an interesting opinion piece from ADN [2]. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:50, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

And here's a story about searching for gas leaks. [3]. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:40, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Another update. [4] Beeblebrox (talk) 19:59, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Railroad back in operation. [5]. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:59, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

7.0 is a love tap, shaking out the worst geotechnical spots (literally small parts of some residential lots), less than 1% of houses have major/severe damage. The residential failures mostly involve fill, organic soil and/or water. There were numerous failures in the city-state offices' response (buses immediately stopped running for no good reason stranding people-poor mgmt; city-state offices with substantial manpower/internet/phone capabilities [e.g. Muldoon Z Mall], closed for 5 days with minor breakage when mom & pop restuarants next door stayed open or opened 2-3 hours later). If not corrected, an 8.2 or 9.4 means the city-state employees will still be useless in many cases that they have valuable resources and we lose land based internet and phones, electricity and water (again).24.237.186.177 (talk) 19:53, 21 December 2018 (UTC) [I'm not Beeblebrox]

Yes, Beeblebrox, I think we should. Much minor damage wasn't immediately discovered, but will cost time and money to repair. Also, the number of injured was inexplicably under reported. For a week they were saying a student broke an arm or wrist and a janitor was cut. Period. Now we know hundreds of people were injured or suffered heart troubles. KTUU: "361 people in Southcentral Alaska visited hospital emergency rooms in the aftermath of the Nov. 30 earthquake for reasons related to the shaker."

Wells-Fargo in Eagle River sent us a letter saying they are closed indefinitely. Well, they said "temporarily," but it was written Dec. 13. That means 2 weeks out they didn't know when they'll re-open. YoPienso (talk) 20:09, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Also, the amazing road repairs will have to be re-done next summer, so there's more huge cost and inconvenience. YoPienso (talk) 20:15, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Just saw this: [6]. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:15, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

time to make some updates

I notice that there are probably quite a few updates that could be made here, mostly related to the Recovery section, as well as controversy over FEMA response. Some of the info related to damage estimates is surely outdated as well.

Also, two schools in Eagle River were closed due to earthquake repairs, which isn't mentioned, and quake road repairs referenced in the listing were only temporary, with permanent repairs still underway.

Side question: I also happen to be an Eagle River resident who experienced considerable house damage (and still working on repairs). Should that be revealed as a COI, even if I am just using my knowledge of references to make updates that have nothing to do with my personal damage? Or does that mean I can't even participate in this update? I do have a personal image I could use--and could ask friends for pics of their very severely damaged houses.

Thanks! Sonyasen (talk) 04:34, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Destroyed schools in Eagle River

There were two schools in Eagle River that were destroyed and the entire school populations had to be relocated for two years while the schools were repaired and made safe again. The Gruening Middle School population was moved to Chugiak High School while the Eagle River Elementary school population was split into four groups that we’re located at Birchwood ABC, Homestead, Fire Lake, and Ravenwood Elementary Schools. Both Gruening and Eagle River Schools were repaired and reopened for the 2021/2022 School year. 69.178.3.36 (talk) 09:23, 27 January 2022 (UTC)