Talk:2012 FIA World Endurance Championship

Splitting up the driver table

I've noticed that the driver table is already quite big, and that it is probably going to get even larger when the full entry list is announced. So I am suggesting that we break the driver table up into four sections, one for each class, and include all footnotes (you have to scroll right to the bottom to see the Toyota ones) and results tables for each class directly beneath the entry list. Although this means there will be a lot more in the way of tables, it will also make the article much more readable because readers will not have to keep scrolling up and down just to make sense of the results. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 00:34, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Also, there should possibly be a summary of what separates each class from one another. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 09:34, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

The problem I foresee is redundancy. Results tables in each section on each class will require repetition of the calendar four times beyond the already existant calendar at the top. The³5₉ (Talk) 10:02, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm looking at the 2011 ILMC page right now, and I can see that the points tables are already divided up by class. I'm not entirely sure what the table will look like now that it's the WEC (I assume you thought it would look something like the ones used on the Formula 1 pages), but just look at the LMP1 table alone - it's already got provisions for 24 drivers. Assuming for the moment that all four classes have twenty-four drivers, that's going to be nearly a hundred entries in a single table, with little to distinguish who is in which class unless you break the tables up. And if we're going to be forced to break the tables up just to make sense of who goes where, then we might as well group the information based on class rather based on entry list and results. And if we do a season review like the ones on the Formula 1 pages (I don't know if we will, I'm just suggesting it), that can go in there, too. It just makes more sense to me to keep all of the relevant information pertaining to each class of racing in one place rather than spreading it out across the whole page. I suggest we have one table showing all the results combined like this at the very top of the page, summarising the entire season:

Rd.	Event	Pole position	LMP1 winner	LMP2 winner	GT-Pro winner	Gt-Ame winner	Report
1	Sebring 12 Hours	Constructor name	Constructor name	Constructor name	Constructor name	Constructor name	Report

That takes care of the calendar. It's all there, available, as a summary. Then we have individual points tables for teams and/or drivers (depending on who points are awarded to), with one for each class like this:

Pos	Driver	SBR	Points
1	Driver name	1	25

I think that would keep repetition to a minimum. Like I said, we should group information by class, not by the type of information. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 06:47, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Splitting the entries into sub-sections for each class is fine, but I'd rather not split the whole article up by classes. At the end of the day all the classes race at the same time against each other. Therefore I personally prefer to have a section with all the entries and then a section with all the results and standings - as per normal. You're looking at it one way, but what if you look at it the other way? Say I just want to have a look at the entries across all classes, perhaps to see what class a particular driver is competing in. That would mean having to scroll through the whole article. So your solution is no better than the usual system. At the moment I don't think it's broke, so it doesn't need fixing. - mspete93 15:44, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

There are six planned championships: LMP1 Drivers, LMP1 Constructors, LMP2 Drivers, GTE Pro Drivers, GTE Am Drivers, and Privateer. Privateer is a championship amongst privateers in all four classes mixed together. This mixed championship obviously will not fit into one section.

It does also create some confusion to have the season race results at the top of the page, then have the entry list at the bottom of the page, followed immediately by a repetition of all the entries in order by championship points. The³5₉ (Talk) 16:26, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Another element to take into consideration is that the entry list, as it stands now, is simply for full season entries. At the moment it does not include second and third entries which are allowed in the WEC regulations. Audi is already rumored to be running 3 cars for Sebring and 4 for Spa, while Toyota will also have a second car as a partial season entry. There are also cars in the GT ranks which are not entered in the full season WEC but are entered for Le Mans and possibly further races and thus will be eligable for manufacturer points. The³5₉ (Talk) 07:34, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Since the tables are already quite big, perhaps we need a way of distinguishing Le Mans-only and half-season entries? The MotoGP season pages use colours in the tables - wildcard entries (one-off riders) are green and replacement entires (riders standing in for injured racers) are pink. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:26, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm not really sure what splitting the table really accomplishes. With the spaces and heading between the tables, it takes up more space than if it were one large table. As for notes, there are ways to make them clickable like references are (in fact, that's the way I set up the Toyota notes before another editor changed them). I'm fine with leaving Sebring/Le Mans-only entries out, as I don't think they'll score points. I'm hugely against splitting everything by class, for the reasons Mspete and The359 outlined above. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 02:38, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Third entries

Since the chart is now static as we have a set number of full-season entries, how exactly do we handle additional entries made by teams over the course of the season? From my understanding of the regulations, even though Audi only has 2 cars entered full season, the third car entered for Sebring and Le Mans (#3) will also be able to help Audi in the points championship. The same applies for the second Toyota entry for Le Mans and possibly Fuji. Several privateers also plan additional entries - second cars from OAK, Greaves, and Signatech cars in LMP2 at Le Mans at the very least. Should these partial season entries be added to the chart as they have an affect on the results of the championship? The³5₉ (Talk) 19:48, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Simplying points tables?

At the moment there are seven championships being awarded for this series, which means seven results tables to keep. Thankfully many of them are very short, such as the Manufacturer's Championship, but this still takes up a ton of space.

I propose that to help matters the FIA Endurance Trophies, one each for teams amongst the four categories, might be integrated into one single chart with simple headers seperating the categories. This might take away from some of the ease of use and readability of the information, but I think it will not be a major hinderance. Even combined I'm sure the drivers chart will still be much shorter than the Drivers Championship chart. The³5₉ (Talk) 09:26, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Drivers' World Championship

Since every classified driver will get at least 0.5 points for the championship, the amount of drivers with points has been quite large (see "the classification" (PDF).). Shall we list all the drivers in the table? Also, is it really necessary to include the teams in the table? One driver may drive for more than one team. Icelan (talk) 16:09, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Including the team allows us to split the results, as you can see in 2011 FIA GT1 World Championship season where several drivers swapped teams and both results are listed accordingly. Also seen in 2011 Formula One season.

As for the number of drivers to list, I don't think it should be determined by a minimum amount of points, but simply the top X number of positions, since even though lots of drivers have .5 points, they are not all in the same championship position on tie breaker. Since most entries have three drivers, having the Top 15 placings should have at the most 35 people listed, although likely to be less due to driver changes mid-season. The³5₉ (Talk) 02:48, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Tor Graves' nationality

I've found two different nationalities for LMP2 ADR-Delta driver Tor Graves: Wikipedia's article for him suggests he is Thai and on the results of Spa 6 Hours he is Thai, but on the FIA WEC Silverstone results page, he is listed as being British. I have filled in the Silverstone results on this page with a British flag to go with the FIA WEC website, but it needs to be addressed either way. Richard n 18:16, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Most likely his license is British since he is based in Britain, but his nationality is Thai. The European Le Mans Series considers him Thai, as does DriverDB.com. His driver uniform and the car also have him marked as Thai. I have listed him as Thai simply because every other article about him also lists him as Thai. The³5₉ (Talk) 00:41, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

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