Talk:2007 Giro d'Italia

Stage lengths

Stage lengths should be corrected. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.44.95.82 (talk) 18:49, May 23, 2007

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--JeffGBot (talk) 13:55, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

This is not true!

"Neither his stage victories nor his mauve jersey for winning the points classification have been awarded to other riders." I'll remove this statement, until someone provides a reliable source for it. Indeed, those stage victories were awarded by statisticians to the runners-up (e.g. Hushovd is credited with the win in stage 7 on most of his Wikipedia pages in different languages) and the mauve jersey was apparently given to Di Luca. --Christomir (talk) 19:20, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a reliable source. The CAS' decision was to strip Petacchi. It said nothing about promoting other riders. And there was no need to post this on three different talk pages. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 05:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Green-eyed girl. We need reliable sources to say that the victories were reawarded, otherwise it's original research. Sometimes, but not always, the victories are reawarded by the UCI later. Sometimes, victories aren't even stripped from a rider who is given a standard two-year ban so there is lots of variation - reawarding the victories is by no means the "standard" course of action. Severo^TC 09:29, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, but I'm not writing anywhere in the article that the victories were reawarded, so I don't need to give you a source for that. But you guys do keep adding to the article the explicit statement that they weren't, so you need to give us a reliable source for that. I'm still waiting to see one and until then I'll remove that statement again. --Christomir (talk) 13:03, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

It's very difficult (and, um, pointless) to source a negative. But here, try these on for size:

[http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2008/petacchi_suspension_may08 The panel allowed him to "retain all competitive results between 23 May 2007 and 31 October 2007." That includes, among others, the two Vuelta a Espana stage wins and Paris-Tours.

Explicitly excluded from that, however, is the Giro. All results from the 2007 Giro and in races this season are also now forfeited, and his name is to be removed as winner. The panel specifically mentions for the Giro that he most forfeit "any medals, points and prizes", which likely includes the financial rewards.][

[http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=3383470 The CAS stripped Petacchi of his five stage wins in the 2007 Giro d'Italia and ruled the 34-year-old sprinter must serve a ban until the end of August.

The ruling relates to allegations Petacchi excessively used an asthma drug during the race.

"All competitive results obtained by Alessandro Petacchi during the 2007 Giro d'Italia shall be disqualified with all of the resulting consequences including forfeiture of any medals, points and prizes," CAS said in a statement.

All of Petacchi's results since Oct. 31 will also be forfeited.]

[http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/05/road/cas-suspends-petacchi_75891 The court also ruled that all of Petacchi’s results from the 2007 Giro should be scratched from the record books.

“All competitive results obtained by Alessandro Petacchi during the 2007 Giro d’Italia shall be disqualified with all of the resulting consequences including forfeiture of any medals, points and prizes,” the court ruled. “Alessandro Petacchi can retain all other competitive results between 23 May 2007 and 31 October 2007, but all competitive results obtained after 31 October 2007, and during the period of ineligibility will be disqualified.”]

Petacchi's five stage wins during the 2007 Giro have been annulled and he loses all prize money, but he can retain results obtained between May 23 2007 and Oct. 31 2007.

Reliable sources state that Petacchi's wins in this Giro have been stripped. They say nothing of awarding those wins to other riders. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 02:57, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Please compare this with your basis of saying that they have been awarded – other languages' Wikipedias. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 03:00, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Wait...if you're not arguing that the wins have been reawarded...then what ARE you arguing? It sounds like everyone's in agreement here. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 03:13, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

What I am arguing is plain and simple that you shouldn't add a statement that even you are not sure is true. And you definitely have no sources for it, as it is obvious from all the texts you are citing. "It's very difficult (and, um, pointless) to source a negative" you say? Of course it is, but then just don't add it to the article. It's just as pointless to add that negative statement ("his stage victories have not been awarded to other riders") to the main article, when we are not sure if it's true or not. In fact, I now have reasons to be sure that the contrary statement, the positive one, is true (and those reasons are not other Wikipedia articles - I was just giving them as an example, not as my main argument). But note this - I'm not adding it to the main article, because I can't cite those reasons as sources on Wikipedia. Follow my example and don't add to Wikipedia articles things you can't prove. Oh, BTW, well done for all that research you did and the links you posted. :) But unfortunately it was all a bit pointless, since the only thing they are telling us is what we already knew - that Petacchi was stripped of those victories in the Giro. None of them say (and I bet you won't find one that says it) that these stages were left without a winner in the record books. Of course, none of them say that the victories were awarded to other riders either, but it doesn't mean that they weren't awarded to them later ;) --Christomir (talk) 11:05, 14 July 2011 (UTC)