Talk:1873 in Germany

RfC on "Born in" year. See comment for more detail.

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The conensus that arose out of the discussion proposes that:-

A person should be identified as "born in" the territory, that the location was acknowledged as part of, at the time of birth; if the location notably fell under different control later, that may be indicated parenthetically or with a footnote.

Winged Blades ^Godric 07:26, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

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In the process of formatting "[YEAR] in Germany" pages, I have encountered a conundrum: The earlier the year, the more likely you are to run into persons who were born in parts of Germany that are no longer part of Germany, primarily Prussians. I haven't been able to decide by myself whether or not to write "born in Poland" for the link to the year they were born/died in or "born in Germany", so I decided to find out what the opinion of the Encyclopedia is. –Vami_IV✠ 00:44, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

I think you should tag this for biography as well as history and geography. Siuenti (talk) 03:07, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

 Done --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:04, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

• If they were born inside the borders of the 18xx state of Prussia/Germany, then we can surly write that they were "born in Prussia/Germany/etc". The state of Poland didn't existed at this place during this time so writing "born in Poland" for someone who was born 1873 in Szczecin/Stettin would be pretty wrong. Ethnicity would obviously be a different matter, but I think in the case of how to name the location we should use the contemporary countries with their borders. Dead Mary (talk) 18:45, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

I would like to clarify the nature of my confusion; are there to be pages like for Poland, and how would they be done? The history of Poland when its independence is confusing but I guess that happens when you split a historically independent region into territories of three different nations. I have so many questions! –Vami_IV✠ 20:00, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Maybe you could give a concrete example, like "With this person, should we do X, or Y, or something else", being specific about what X and Y are. Feel free to add a Z as well, and if there were any letters after Z you could add them too, LOL. Siuenti (talk) 22:33, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

No one was born in "Germany" prior to 1871, as they was no such thing. Even prior to 1918, we might say he or she was born in the Kingdom of Prussia. For the purpose of these year pages, it should be OK include people born in a federal state of the German Empire, under the common heading "Year in Germany". Prior to 1871, I don't think there should be such a ahistorical catch-all label. Mootros (talk) 07:32, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

I think a person should be identified as "born in" the territory that the location was acknowledged as part of at the time of birth; if the location notably fell under different control later, that can be indicated parenthetically or with a footnote. --DavidK93 (talk) 16:27, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

David93 has an idea worth considering. It might look something like this: Diego Lopez, born in Yerba Buena, New Spain (now San Francisco, California). The location as identified at the time of their birth seems significant to the understanding of a particular person while the status of that location today assists the reader with understanding the geographical location. Both add context and foster understanding for the reader.Horst59 (talk) 03:41, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

The article and categorization should follow what the place was actually called at the time (ie Kingdom of Prussia, Kingdom of Bavaria etc), not what it is now. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:09, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

• David93’s idea does have a lot of merit. As noted above, it would look something like this: Diego Lopez, born in Yerba Buena, New Spain (now San Francisco, California). This combines historical accuracy with a helpful note for people whose depth of historical knowledge is more limited.Dean Esmay (talk) 20:54, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

So would the consensus be to split these pages (from 1806 to 1871) into "Year in Württemberg" as in the model of the years in Israel, or to continue with this course but instead divide the pages accordingly in the events, births, deaths, etc. sections? –Vami_IV✠ 00:14, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

• Clarify it. There is a WP rule on this somewhere. Say where they were born, and then clarify the location currently is. David93 has it. Which is the rule. scope_creep (talk) 12:08, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.