Talk:(+ +)

Requested move 16 November 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to + + (EP). Although a move away from the bare title + + was unanimously supported, the consensus among the discussion participants is that the band name is unneeded in the disambiguator. (non-admin closure) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 19:47, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

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+ + → + + (Loona EP) – there are various more notable meanings for plus plus as shown on ++ dab page. So why Loona EP rather than just + + (EP)? Because it was reissued as X X (EP), so anyone hunting for it is not necessarily going to recognise "+ +" anyway. The inclusion of band name Loona is needed to pass WP:CRITERIA. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:37, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose - suggest instead move to Plus plus (EP) a la Hash (EP). - UtherSRG (talk) 14:59, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

That would be perfectly fine too. The current situation is a non-starter. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:01, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Hash (EP) is only at that title because of technical restrictions around the "#" symbol. A better comparable would be Ed Sheeran's ÷ (album) and + (album). 162 etc. (talk) 19:34, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

• Move to + + (EP). I'm not aware of any other EPs named "+ +", so the inclusion of the group's name is excessive disambiguation. 162 etc. (talk) 19:31, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
• Weak support as chess notation seems more notable. I'm not sure the artist is needed though. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:02, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

  I'll note that the standard algebraic notation for checkmate is "#". "++" is rarely seen. It's also unlikely that somebody looking for Algebraic notation (chess) or checkmate would use "+ +" as a search term. 162 etc. (talk) 18:05, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

• Support + + (EP), in line with dab conventions (noting that there is a space in between the pluses, which I nearly missed) ASUKITE 21:54, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 15 May 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Hash (EP) moved to (Hash). (non-admin closure) Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 02:00, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

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• + + (EP) → (+ +)
• Hash (EP) → ?
• 12:00 (Loona EP) → (12:00)
• & (Loona EP) → (&)

– Alternative, less-restricted titles. The titles for these EPs do not seem to be simple stylizations. For [#], the parentheses would substitute the brackets (as above), and either the number sign is substituted with its pronunciation as (Hash) (similar to Back and Forth (film) and "Number 9 Dream") or the number sign is substituted with the sharp symbol as (♯) (similar to ♯P and "Rainy Day Women ♯12 & 35"). JohnCWiesenthal (talk) 21:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 16:05, 23 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Polyamorph (talk) 18:13, 31 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 11:56, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

• Space question: For + + (EP), there is currently a space between the two "+" symbols. But there is no space on the EP's cover art. Do sources usually include a space? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 09:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Korean music labels are characteristically consistent and stringent with their titings, even in those cases where it appears to be at odds with the album artwork. As a counterexample, Belle and Sebastian will varyingly style their group name as having either an ampersand or the word 'the' on their albums, and various music stores, music label listings, official websites, etc. will vary from either & or 'the' without always having the best rhyme or reason. Korean labels tend to be stricter – even though there is no space on the artwork for [+ +], you will be hard-pressed to find an online listing or official source otherwise that doesn't include a space. As far as how fans refer to it, there is probably a preference to type out ++ in informal conversation as it's quicker, but (as a barometer rather than strict metric) fan wikis will typically ensure the space is there. --AVNOJ1989 (talk) 01:01, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

• Leaning oppose or (Hash) for Hash (EP). The title [#] is not available. Wikipedia generally avoids adding characters that are merely decorative, and I think the current title is a reasonable approach without trying to add a distorted version of the brackets – using (Hash) wouldn't be using the correct type of brackets anyway. On the other hand, if we move the others then I can see the argument for using (Hash) for consistency with the others. Using the word "Hash" rather than than the symbol seems very similar to the approach used for both Back and Forth (film) and "Number 9 Dream" – both of those convert the unavailable symbol to a word. For those as well as the other articles mentioned, namely ♯P and "Rainy Day Women ♯12 & 35", I notice that you covered up the actual article titles, and I don't think you should have done that. For purposes of this discussion, we need to see what those titles are in order to discuss them. The article at ♯P says it is pronounced "Sharp P", so for that one it seems OK that the first character is a sharp symbol, and that is not an analogous case. For "Rainy Day Women ♯12 & 35", I have opened an RM at Talk:Rainy Day Women ♯12 & 35#Requested move 28 May 2024 that proposes renaming that article to avoid using the sharp symbol. As far as I can tell, that article has never had an RM discussion. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 09:14, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

  I have since removed the piped links per your comment. JohnCWiesenthal (talk) 14:01, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

  Rainy Day Women ♯12 & 35 has been moved to Rainy Day Women Nos. 12 & 35. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 22:55, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

  I know. I commented in that discussion. JohnCWiesenthal (talk) 23:01, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

  Well, yes, sorry if that came across as confusing or condescending. The comment was for the benefit of others (and posterity) – not you. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:16, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

  Not: In case that wasn't clear, my comment was only about Hash (EP). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 13:34, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

• Since this RM has had very low turnout, I may as well add my thoughts. It seems reasonable to me to approximate [ ] with ( ). By the way, I checked Apple Music and it lists [12:00] and [X X] as albums, not EPs – what's that all about? Toadspike [Talk] 03:33, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Final relist BilledMammal (talk) 11:56, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

• Support. These are the official name of the albums and have been consistently named this across a number of resources rather than some elective stylized names which won't be maintained in the future, and I have not seen fans come up with alternate names for them (if they have, they haven't used those names consistently). For (+ +), examples in WP:NCTR seem to allow for either + + or (+ +), but I would suggest (+ +) makes more sense, in line with what is proposed. Nearly the exact same rationale for (12:00) and (&). The question, really, is what to do with [#]? Officially, both 'Hash' and 'Sharp' have been used to refer to the album [1], and if you read through user comments at the bottom of this fan wiki [2], there is not a clear 'winner', but 'Hash' seems to win out. AVNOJ1989 (talk) 01:24, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.