Template talk:Human name disambiguation

A little help...

Can someone point me to the discussion about this template being redirected? Thanks in advance — Bellhalla 07:44, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_%28disambiguation_pages%29/Disambiguation_subcategories Tedernst | talk 16:29, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I have reverted. That edit is jumping the gun. The poll requires the template to be removed, not redirected. The WP:D requires that these entries be added to the Wikipedia:Multiple-place names list and each page changed to orphan the template before the template can be deleted, and I don't see how that can happen with a redirect. This is not following the proper procedure for TfD.

--William Allen Simpson 06:06, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, this template is deprecated. This means that it should no longer be used. Instead of this template you can use {{disambig}} and Category:Human name disambiguation. --Commander Keane 05:50, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

If it was deprecated at one point, it is not now deprecated. Chris the speller 20:33, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Category

As the category is being kept, we should keep this template as well. It's a simple way to add the category. Besides, as long as the template is not being deleted as per TfD, there isn't really a reason to not use it. -- User:Docu

The preceding undated comment was made 03:00, March 25, 2006 by Docu. Chris the speller 22:45, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I for one am very glad that this template (and the associated category) were not deleted. They make a very useful pair in adding clarity to disambiguation pages. --BrownHairedGirl (talk • contribs) 14:41, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Remove cat:dabs from the templates

We should remove cat:dabs from the template, imho, as it's a supercat of cat:people-dabs. In general (and here), it's not good to have the same page (here, many pages) in both a supercat and a subcat.—msh210℠ 20:32, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

In general no, but in this case, I think it's preferable to keep it in there. It facilitates identifying all disambiguation pages and it isn't really a problem for Category:Disambiguation to have them in there as well. -- User:Docu

Why?

I question the benefit of assigning categories to disambiguation pages. Isn't it conceivable that a band could form with the name Greg Ellis (but no members so named) thus making the template obsolete? - BalthCat 19:00, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

"Human name?"

Why the awkward term "human name"? All names are used by humans. Perhaps if we were space aliens, we could use this term to refer to names adopted by those humans over there on Earth.

Since it links to personal name, I will change the text. —Michael Z. 2006-11-06 21:05 Z

This human name article is a disambiguation page — a list of pages that might otherwise share the same title, which is a person's or persons' name. If an article link referred you here, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page.

Come to think of it, this is not so well written overall.

• This "human name article" is not an article at all: it is a disambiguation page
• "Person's or persons' name" is needlessly redundant
• It is not quite consistent with the text of template:disambig

Any objections to change it to the following?

Yes, it's almost identical to template:disambig. But why make changes to that text which serve no purpose? Why confusingly mix the phrases "human name" and "person's or persons' name"? —Michael Z. 2006-11-06 21:12 Z

This really ought to be about personal names, not just human names. Someday, a cat (say) named after Erwin Schrödinger (say) is liable to become famous as an animal actor (say, in commercials for a new line of personal quantum computers marketed by Apple —they're just the guys to do this sort of thing). Even if only human names are likely to come up in the near future, there's no reason to limit this arbitrarily. —Toby Bartels 19:42, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I have just reverted an edit which made the change to "personal name". I have no desire to be speciest, but this template is only use on article about humans, and since human biographical articles are categorised separately for non-human ones, the distinction is relevant. Also, personal name is less clear (it could refer to the "personal name" I give to a place). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:38, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I just changed it back to 'personal name', because 'human name' is distracting and sounds ridiculous. Leaving aside arguments about speciesism, everybody knows that 'personal name' means a person's name. Who is going to be confused? --Heron (talk) 18:00, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Should be a human name Lockedwimp2856 (talk) 03:33, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

"Clone" wording stinks.

It is horribly annoying to have to go into edit mode to see if the disambig is the correct one ! ! ! It makes it VERY inconvenient to change disams that are not already changed... so much for "easy improvement" in wikipedia. Not going to change it because I don't feel like dealing with the argument / edit war that will result. Zotel - the Stub Maker 23:28, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

So someone didn't think of that. There's really no need to ooze your frustration all over the page just to make the point. —Michael Z. 2006-11-06 23:42 Z

Proposal to change this template

There are biography articles where the first name personal name causes confusion, where the last name causes confusion (surname and {{surname}}), and were two or more terms from a single human name cause confusion {{namedab}}. Using "human name" in {{hndis}} is confusing because the personal name, middle name, and last name of a human all are human names. In addition, the template {{surname}}) is not consistent with the article personal name from which the template derives its meaning. The template {{hndis}} should be change to {{personalnamedab}}. However, proper name should be considered as well. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 17:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

How about {{given name}}? -- Cielomobile ^{talk / contribs} 05:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Other disambig templates?

Are there any other disambiguation templates and categories? (Besides this and {{disambig}}, I mean.) —Toby Bartels 19:30, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Besides disambig and hndis, there are:

• disambig-cleanup
• geodis
• numberdis
• mathdab
• schooldis
• hospitaldis
• mountainindex
• shipindex
• POWdis

I may have missed one or two, but I am sure this is fairly representative. This seems slightly excessive to me, but there it is. I think one gets created every month or so. Chris the speller 01:56, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Templates can be categorized, just like articles; notice the category links at the bottom! So take a look at Category:Disambiguation and redirection templates for more templates. Studerby 05:04, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, both of you! —Toby Bartels 01:52, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

"Human name"

Please don't use this term in the template. It makes it seem if we're trying to disambiguate from other species, which is just plain silly.

Peter ^Isotalo 10:48, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Hint: if you want to win other editors over to your side, it might be counterproductive to describe their actions as "just plain silly". Chris the speller (talk) 15:23, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, without the silliness then: using the term "human name" for personal name makes it seem as if we're trying to disambiguate from martians and dogs. What's the counter-argument?

Peter ^Isotalo 18:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

No, we're saying this is a template that is used on a page that disambiguates articles when there are multiple (human) persons that could have the same article name. So "human name" just reinforces the fact that we are talking about "human" persons, not about other uses of the word "person", as in the WP article "Person": "in many jurisdictions a corporation may be treated as a "person" under the law". Since dogs are not persons and not humans, changing from "human name" to "personal name" does not affect them. I am not an expert on the names used by Martians, but I have always imagined that there is little chance of any of their names overlapping names of humans. One thing I do know, however, is that nothing enrages a Martian more than spelling 'Martian' with a lower-case 'm', so be careful. Chris the speller (talk) 20:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

"noinclude" tag

{{editprotected}} The template is broken. The first part of the first line "<noinclude>{{pp-template}}<noinclude>" needs a backslash before the second "noinclude". jwillbur 16:08, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Y fixed. SkierRMH (talk) 16:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

That was my mistake. Sorry, and thanks for the fix. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Fictional characters

If a disambig page contains a fictional human character, should it use the hndis template? Dsp13 (talk) 11:19, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I know some editors feel that they should be treated differently, but I say that some readers in some cases will not know whether a name refers to a human or a fictional character. Once the disambig page (which will probably be a hndis page) does its job and gets them to the right article, then they will know. After all, even most fictional characters have human names; Mike Hammer is a human name that refers to a (fictional) human, while C3PO is a non-human name that refers to a fictional robot. Chris the speller (talk) 19:33, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Human name

The term "human name" sounds really odd. I propose changing the wording from "This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the same human name." to "This disambiguation page lists articles relating to people with the same name." Bingobangobongoboo (talk) 12:52, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Double Divider Line

on Peter Powell it seems to be producing a double divider line on the (HN)disambig notice. Should it be doing that?. Peachey88 ^{(Talk Page | Contribs)} 00:05, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

It was because the {{hndis}} tag was at the end of a line of text. Adding a few newlines fixed it. jwillbur 00:23, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Categories

{{editprotected}} Even though Category:Lists of ambiguous human names is a subcategory of Category:Disambiguation, it would be helpful if this template also placed articles directly in Category:Disambiguation, so that automated scripts may easily identify (by scanning that category) the universe of all disambiguation pages. --Russ (talk) 19:37, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not so sure about this. There are many more templates like this one that do not use the parent category. Bots should probably be using MediaWiki:Disambiguationspage. --- RockMFR 19:08, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

 Not done Per above. PeterSymonds (talk) 14:50, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Defaultsort problem

See Edgar Nunez, and its history. The "DEFAULTSORT:Nunez, Edgar" did not function: the page appeared in the category under Edgar (expected: Nunez). After I added the name in the template, like "hndis|Nunez, Edgar", it appeared under Nunez, as expected. Both names are without diacritics etc. What could be wrong? -DePiep (talk) 17:49, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

What's wrong is that, if the first parameter (or name=) is not defined, hndis feeds {{PAGENAME}} as the first parameter of the category "link".

Effectively... [[Category: ... | {{PAGENAME}} ]], thus overriding what you set with DEFAULTSORT.

I've included a fix for this in the remodeled version described in the next section. -- Fullstop (talk)

Thnx. Reads like it's solved. Unchecked by me. -DePiep (talk) 22:18, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

multi-type, multi-cat and fix for {defaultsort} problem

{{editprotected}}

At {{User:Fullstop/Sandbox/T2}}, I've remodeled {{hndis}} to

• Fix the {{DEFAULTSORT}} problem described in the section above this one.
• In addition to normal hndis functionality, the remodeled version can also serve as the "core" for (e.g) {{given name}}, with text and categories being changed as appropriate.
• Its also usable for dab pages that include both given names and last names, but (unlike hndis) separate from each other.
  Such pages will then not need to transclude multiple templates.
  An example of where this is used is Rhys.
• Allow multiple categories (so one can have e.g. "cat:Welsh given name" and "cat:English given name").

The revised version is at {{User:Fullstop/Sandbox/T2}}. I'll update the /doc if there are no objections. -- Fullstop (talk) 21:21, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

My apologies for this request sitting here so long without a response—the proposed code at User:Fullstop/Sandbox/T2 contains references to User:Fullstop/Sandbox/T3—are you intending this template to depend on one of your subpages? Pagrashtak 15:50, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Heavens no. ;) A sub-page of hndis, e.g. "Hndis/aux" or "Hndis/expandcat" (or something) please! Alternatively, we could also expand it inline, but I don't think that's a good idea. -- Fullstop (talk) 17:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Please move your T2 subpage to Template:Hndis/sandbox and your T3 subpage to whatever subpage is appropriate and update the sandbox to use the final name. After you've done that, I would appreciate it if you could solicit comments from the dab WikiProject. Since this appears to be a major change, I'd like to have a couple of other editors verify that this is good to go before implementation. Pagrashtak 17:36, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

*nod* Will do. I will also write up the doc first. That way, comments can address functionality right away. -- Fullstop (talk) 23:03, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

This seems to be a pretty major change, so I've disabled the editprotected template pending discussion. Maxim_(talk) 15:22, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

thanks. It takes off this pressure. ;) -- Fullstop (talk) 05:33, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Still buggy?

There are 87 names listed in the beginning of the Human name disambiguation pages category, apparently because their sorting value is undefined or empty. Checking their pages, I do not see a pattern; there are even some that have the previously required "name=" tag. Afasmit (talk) 18:40, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Oops, that is probably my fault. I reworked the categorising code of this template and several other disambig templates earlier today. I am planning to run some tests to double check that my changes doesn't cause any category sort problems. But I had to get some hours sleep, so I have not done those tests yet.

I have a vague memory that whitespace around the category sort key used to cause sort problems. But I thought I remembered that was fixed in MediaWiki now. But seems it still is a problem...

Anyway, I will do my tests today and see if the bug is what I think it is. Then I'll fix these templates. (I know, I know, I should have used the /sandbox. I guess I was too self confident this time.)

--David Göthberg (talk) 21:49, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay, my tests show that we still can not have whitespace around category sort keys. So I have now fixed my mistake in these templates. Now we just have to wait for the pages in Category:Human name disambiguation pages to re-sort. Since MediaWiki runs that as a low priority job that can take anywhere from some minutes to two weeks depending on how busy the servers are.

--David Göthberg (talk) 22:39, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Propose changing wording

In a discussion over the use of this template or {{given name}} (discussion here, page concerned was Ulrik) I felt that the phrase "personal name" (i.e in the text displayed "This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the same personal name.") was ambiguous because personal name could refer to someone's given name. I propose the text be changed to "This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the same full name." Full name redirects to personal name but full name differentiates {{hndis}} from {{given name}} more clearly. Any thoughts? Tassedethe (talk) 06:28, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Change link

{{editprotected}}

The wikilink of "Disambiguation" in main dab template Template:Disambig has been changed from Wikipedia:Disambiguation to Help:Disambiguation. Similarly the link needs to be changed here for sake of consistency. Cited third page (talk) 03:37, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Y Done - And I am going to update the rest of the disambig boxes. --David Göthberg (talk) 10:02, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Automated template link to list of living people with same name?

It might be possible to add a link to this template (or maybe to a talk page template) directing readers and/or editors to a category listing of living people with the same surname. To see what I mean, follow link a link like articles on living people named 'Atherton', and then compare to List of people with surname Atherton. Would something like this be possible to add to the template? It would ideally be a link covering all biographical articles (both of living people and the dead), but as we don't have a category containing all biographical articles, that is not currently possible (hopefully it will be possible one day - ideas on how to do that welcomed), but it is currently possible for articles on living people. That example, chosen purely at random, has only two of the living people listed on the surname disambiguation (technically set index) page. That may be because the others are less notable than those who are dead and safely notable, so indiscriminate updating of such lists may not be the best idea. Carcharoth (talk) 21:51, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't think I get your point. Maurreen (talk) 21:17, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Interesting idea, Carcharoth. Given your example, might it be better placed in the surname template? (Ceteris paribus, those are more likely to be incomplete.) Dsp13 (talk) 21:53, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Surname template is a much better idea (typically, I put my idea on the wrong talk page)! I will make a longer proposal there, and have now done so here (hopefully that is clearer, if longer). Carcharoth (talk) 03:02, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Remove Category:Article Feedback Blacklist

Hi. Please undo this edit. The article feedback tool is now opt-in per-article. The blacklist category is no longer necessary. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:46, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Done --Redrose64 (talk) 10:42, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Proposed move

As this is the 'actual template' as opposed to a redirect I think it should be renamed and moved to Template:Human name disambiguation. This page would become a redirect to the new page name. The functionality and use case would remain the same however if someone tried to find out what Hndis was the more verbose name would allow them to figure it out quicker. Jamesmcmahon0 (talk) 16:46, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Support, excellent idea! All the best, Rich Farmbrough, 05:12, 7 April 2014 (UTC).

Defaultsort again

In David Armstrong there is at first {{hndis|Armstrong, David}} and after that {{DEFAULTSORT:Armstrong, David}}. Is it wrong? Should the defaultsort-sentence in such circumstances be removed? Taivorist (talk) 10:57, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Documentation needs improving

Documentation needs improving. It is clear that this template should be used on a disambiguation page where all of the entries have the exact same given name and surname. It is not clear if this template is appropriate for various other cases:

Mononym neither a given name nor a surname

Shakila (disambiguation) uses this template; is this appropriate? The article Princessa (disambiguation) could be created with entries Princessa and Princessa (singer); would this template be appropriate there?

Royalty etc.

This template is not used in disambiguations like Pope John or King Charles; documentation should discuss this.

Sobriquets

This template is not used in sobriquet disambiguations. Both Édith Piaf and Sezen Aksu are known as "The Little Sparrow", if The Little Sparrow or Little Sparrow (disambiguation) were created as a disambiguation of these two names, the page would not use this template; documentation should discuss this.

Names not exact

This template was recently added to Christopher Bayley, which disambiguates Chris Bayley (whose given name is actually Christopher) and Christopher Bayly (whose surname is not Bayley). Documentation should clarify if this is appropriate use of this template ... but first, we need to have that discussion here, if it hasn't already been decided somewhere else.

Surname and given name swaps

If there were two individuals named Park Kim, one of whom had the surname Park and the other had the surname Kim, would the disambiguation of these two persons get this template? —Anomalocaris (talk) 19:01, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

I agree the documentation can be better. In the case of Christopher Bayley, I hadn't even noticed the different spellings. While the question regarding use of this template in similar cases is still valid, for that particular case, I'd be inclined to redirect it to Chris Bayley and add a hatnote to the other there. older ≠ wiser 20:05, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Christopher Bayley was a redirect to Christopher Bayly. I changed it to a disambiguation when I was looking for the actual Washington State political figure Christopher Bayley, got redirected to Christopher Bayly, and found Chris Bayley has the article I was looking for. I agree with Bkonrad's proposal to turn Christopher Bayley into redirect to Chris Bayley and add a hatnote to Christopher Bayly there. That's what I would have done in the first place, but I didn't have the nerve to completely remove the link to Christopher Bayly from Christopher Bayley. —Anomalocaris (talk) 00:30, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

User:Bkonrad: Christopher Bayley now redirects to Chris Bayley. Chris Bayley and Christopher Bayly have helpful hatnotes added. —Anomalocaris (talk) 22:33, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation#Dab pages vs name SIAs

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation#Dab pages vs name SIAs. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 12:45, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 30 January 2019

Please update the template's code from the sandbox version, which:

• Uses |nocat= to disable {{Disambiguation page short description}}
• Propagates the value of {{{nocat}}} to the {{Dmbox}} transclusion.

These changes (borrowed from the {{Disambiguation}} template code) allow categorization to be prevented when displaying example message boxes on pages like Wikipedia:Template_messages/General, which is currently being categorized in Category:Disambiguation pages with short description. FeRDNYC (talk) 01:30, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- /Alex/₂₁ 04:17, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 22 February 2020

Please change:

{{R from move}}

To:

{{Rcat shell|
{{R from move}}
{{R from template shortcut}}
}}

This adds the {{R from template shortcut}} category to Template:Hndis per WP:RRCAT. J947 ^(c), at 02:29, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

 Done Izno (talk) 04:03, 22 February 2020 (UTC)