Talk:Váli (son of Loki)

Proposed merger

Merger of Váli (the article on Váli son of Óðinn) into this article, as proposed there last month, would not be a good idea. If you accept that there are two sons named Váli, they are sons of different fathers and obviously not the same person. However, Ursula Dronke has made a good case that this Váli, the son of Loki, is an invention on the part of Snorri based on the variant text of "Völuspá" in Hauksbók: p. 76 in the introductory material to her edition of the poem. I will add this to this article. But if you accept her contention that this Váli is in fact spurious, then again the other article should not be merged here. So in neither view is a merger with this article appropriate. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:44, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

• The merger was boldly performed despite the lack of discussion here. I have reverted it. There are as it stands two Vális in Norse mythology; this justifies having two articles. Yngvadottir (talk) 17:40, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Oppose per Yngvadottir. :bloodofox: (talk) 23:11, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Unannounced bold merger in reverse direction

An IP editor made the article a redirect to Váli, arguing that there is only one Váli. I have undone the merger, but I have added "some versions" before "Norse mythology" in the lede. As the article states, Dronke argues that the Prose Edda Váli son of Loki rests on a misinterpretation; but nonetheless he is there in one of our major sources, so he—and the argument he is spurious—deserves an article. I'm pinging Bloodofox, the only other participant in the above discussion, and I'll inform the IP editor on their talk page since they can't be pinged. Yngvadottir (talk) 18:54, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

On reviewing your changes, I agree. The article needed updated, but in adding important citations and information I removed some potential for discussion and oversight: looking at your changes the information is more complete and balanced when presented this way. Good edit. I might change formatting to reference the "other" Váli towards the top so it is easier to find and contrast the two academic possibilities, but this seems very content complete. 173.75.54.234 (talk) 13:58, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for re-evaluating; I'm glad. I've moved your post to the section on the recent merger, out of the section about the first time this was proposed (originally in the reverse direction); I hope you don't mind. Yngvadottir (talk) 18:43, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

I don't mind at all! Again, the other way worked alright - but you are obviously experienced at this and have a better handle on things. I've got an account now if anyone ever needs to contact me again. I figured I had done enough editing as 173.75.54.234 and it made sense to do it before I moved and ended up with a new IP address. TheGrinningViking (talk) 10:50, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Snorri "inventing a second Váli"

This part of the article is unclear:

> It is likely that this was Snorri's source, and that he interpreted the manuscript text Vála vígbǫnd as "bonds from Váli's act of slaughter", thus inventing a second Váli.

Why would "Váli's act of slaughter" imply a second Váli? I suppose it's saying "Snorri had other sources saying Loki's son was killed by his brother, and Snorri (mis)interpreted this source as saying Loki's son was killed by Váli, and thus concluded there must be a son of Loki named Váli. (I.e., a second Váli besides just the son of Odin.) But if that's what is intended, the article could make that more clear. Tim314 (talk) 18:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)