Talk:The Adventures of Tintin/Archive 3

Nazi censorship? Untrue!

In this sentence: Other changes to the mechanics of creating the strip were forced on Hergé by outside events. The Second World War and the invasion of Belgium by Hitler's armies saw the closure of the newspaper in which Tintin was serialised. Work was halted on Land of Black Gold, and the already published Tintin in America and The Black Island were banned by the Nazi censors, who were concerned at their presentation of America and Britain.

According to Pierre Assouline's biography of Hergé, this is just totally untrue. No Tintin album has ever been banned by the Nazi censors... It's actually Hergé himself who (like in many if not all albums) did major changes in the course of the different versions of the Black Island. During the war, he decided not to have the US flag stay in the last strip when the color version was due, because he felt the German censorship would now notice the colored flag more easily, and would not authorize the book, which had already been published without harm in the B&W version. In doing so Hergé was just autocensoring himself (like so often).

I am French and won't correct your article but please have a look on it... I'm pretty sure Assouline's book has been published in the US.

81.67.84.225 19:47, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

As a digression, I'd think nazists would approve of much of the depiction of USA, actually. Not to look down on the album (the first one with a coherent story), its depiction of gangsters, lawlessness, capitalism etc. would probably have resonated quite well with Nazi propagandists (albeit this was not the cause of its creation). The USA in Tintin in America is exotic and adventurous, but not necessarily a role model. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 09:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Some Good Material on the Spanish Wiki

There's a whole good section on the Spanish Wiki on Tintin that can be translated and pasted into the English. It's got three citations, and is correct as far as I can see (I can barely read Spanish). All it would take is 20 minutes of some kind Spanish / English speaker. "Los otros autores de Tintin". I could do this, starting from scratch in English, but I don't have two of the references, and it would take me five times as long. Any takers? Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 04:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

It certainly deserves translation / adaptation. If added, I would also add Roger Leloup as one of the main contributors (he designed e.g. the private jet in Flight 714). Fram 13:26, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I hope this has not been mentioned before....

The main photo at the top of the article states that it shows the characters from 'The Castafoire Emerald' which it does... In the book however Tintin is still wearing plus fours..... Tintin's trousers first appeared in 'The Picaros' —Preceding unsigned comment added by Licornenoire (talk • contribs) 17:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

There are characters in that picture who only appear in 'The Castafoire Emerald', although this picture never appeared in that album 207.134.166.42 00:21, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Awards

In the English town of Middlesbrough, humourous spoofs have been made of the Tintin cartoons in which the characters have been re-dubbed with Middlesbrough accents and curse profusely.

This seems out of place to me in the awards section. -- RND  T  C  16:05, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, I removed it. Fram (talk) 08:30, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Racism

Perhaps a controversey section should be added to the article, a lot of shops have moved Tintin to the adult literature section due to it's seemingly racist portrayal of black natives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.143.14.7 (talk) 06:31, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

There has been no mass migration of Tintin to the adult book section as implied; there has however been a move to limit access to one specific volume. This is misleading, and would be better rendered as: some bookshops have moved "Tintin in the Congo" (the last colour book to be published in English) to the adult section in response to claims that the book is racist in its portrayal of the Congolese. To identify the album's dated paternalistic treatment of the former Belgian colony, the publisher had already ensured that it would be distributed with a belly-band carying a warning message, and that a note from the translators explaining the situation was printed within the book. Jock123 (talk) 11:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:CaptainHaddock.png

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What's in a name?

Having read Tintin in many languages, I was wondering whether Hergé himself actually approved of the different names used. In Dutch/Flemish Tintin is called "Kuifje" after his quiff, and Snowy is transmogrified into the mundane "Bobby", while Captain Haddock remains untouched. Has the name "Tintin" been retained in all other languages? Regards to all Tintin/Kuifje fans at Wikipedia, Frank Landsman (talk) 08:57, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

It's documented that Hergé (and Jacobs, was it?) spent considerable time deliberating about such small matters as punctuation (semi-colon vs. a period). That may not have been the case with names. Many of the originals are "in jokes" for Belgian or French readers that wouldn't come across if literally translated. It's likely that Hergé recognized there was no way to make the same joke in all other languages. Would it bother him, the way punctuation would? No, because punctuation is about the "reading" of a line -- get it wrong, and the meaning changes. But once a reader has "got" the joke about a name -- "Haddock" being a fish, for example -- it doesn't affect story nuances. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 17:51, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

In the section about characters Professor Calculus is mentioned as being called Tournesol in French which, correctly, means sunflower. However, "papier de tournesol" means litmus paper (used to test the acidity of chemicals). Does anybody know which definition Hergé intended (if either)? Retyef 16 September 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.25.212.67 (talk) 00:12, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I don’t think it has ever been settled conclusively, but I think there is a good chance it was mean to be both - the original model for Calculus was scientist Professor Auguste Piccard, who Hergé used to see in the streets of Brussels; Picard was such an unusually tall man, that Hergé joked he had to make Calculus short, or he couldn’t have fitted him in the frame with Tintin and the other characters. The combination of height and science probably make a sunflower a subtle gag at Piccard’s expense. St. Tryphon is the patron saint of gardeners, so that also suggests that perhaps horticulture was in mind, and explains the Professor’s interest in gardening?Jock123 (talk) 12:34, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Tin Tin vs Tintin

Why is "Tin Tin" redirecting to this article while "Tintin" goes to a disambiguation page (and why isn't there a link to said disambiguation page at the top of this article?) "Tin Tin (musical group)" also redirects here instead of to the proper article. I've been trying to find the article on the band Tin Tin and I had to use Google to find it. This needs to be fixed; I'd do it myself but it's 2 in the morning. Captain Packrat (talk) 07:57, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

New Tintin Museum in Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium

The Tintin page should list, or have pointers to the new museum which opened in late May 2009. See 2 links, below:

http://www.museeherge.com/

http://www.economist.com/books/PrinterFriendly.cfm?story_id=13726565 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.218.61 (talk) 00:04, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

POV issues with introductory paragraphs

I was surprised to see that despite its featured article status, the opening section to this article contains several instances POV (point of view). For instance, claiming that the series is "engaging" is a clear instance of POV - I might agree with that statement, as might the person who wrote the reference (Kim Thompson), but many might find the books to be inherently un-engaging. Similarly, it claims that the books contain "colourful" characters - again, POV!!! This has to be changed, it is simply not up to Wikipedia standards! (Midnightblueowl (talk) 00:20, 6 December 2009 (UTC))

non-POV doesn't mean blandly neutral, expunging all adjectives unaccompanied by a reference that uses the exact same word. Those two words are a reasonable description of the general opinion of this staggeringly popular series, and fit fine within wikipedia's role for an article like this. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 14:09, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

"General opinion" is not fact. Particularly not when it comes to something like literature. If the majority disagree with me, then fair enough, but I really do not understand how on earth "engaging" can be anything but POV... (Midnightblueowl (talk) 23:48, 6 December 2009 (UTC))

I don't have the problem with the use of the words 'engaging' or 'colourful' that Midnightblueowl has above. It seems to be me to be fair. After all the books are very widely read and am sure that the vast majority of readers would agree with the use of these adjectives here. No-one would describe the books as 'insipid' or they characters as 'dull', would they? Just my opinion.  SmokeyTheCat  •TALK• 17:14, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Hergé had a bad attitude to women

I loved all the books as a boy but as man the most striking feature is the general absence of women. And, even when women do appear, they are either bossy, over-bearing and unattractive like Bianca Castafiori or dowdy, insignificant and unattractive like Bianca's maid Irma. You can search all the books and not find a single attractive woman, a role model for girls reading the book. Worth a mention?  SmokeyTheCat  •TALK• 10:52, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Certainly there is a notable lack of female characters in the books, excepting Bianca Castafiore of course. I wouldn't characterize it as a bad attitude about women, more likely Hegre had difficulty working female characters into what are essentially adventure stories for boys. As minor counterpoints to your message it can be pointed out that Castafiore seems to have little trouble attracting men, including Sponsz (The Calculus Affair), Prof Calculus (The Castafiore Emerald and Tintin and the Picaros), and perhaps even Rastapopoulos (as the Marquis de Gorgonzola in the Red Sea Sharks, and alluded to in the Castafiore Emerald). Granted Prof Calculus is perhaps none too discerning when it comes to females. Castafiore is also shown in a somewhat heroic light in Tintin and the Picaros, and also when she helps Tintin and the Captain in The Calculus Affair. The unfinished Tintin and Alph Art also introduces Martine Vandezande, who stands out as the only young woman Tintin has any significant interaction with throughout the series (excepting Miarka, the young Gipsy girl from the Castafiore Emerald). These are all minor points though, and notably all from later stories. I would think a brief mention of the lack of women in the series could be made somewhere in the article. Winston365 (talk) 01:49, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Translation and speech balloons

The assertion that the translation to English led to “unexpectedly full or empty” speech balloons really isn’t warranted, or should give citations. The translators were painfully aware that they had to deliver text which would fit the space available, and the first thing that Leslie Lonsdale-Cooper would do before they undertook a translation was to literally sit and count the characters in the French and note the length of text that was required. There may have been odd times that there was a mis-match, but certainly not “often”.Jock123 (talk) 13:05, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

In fact the citation given makes no such assertion. The link is dead, but it is archived on the wayback machine http://web.archive.org/web/20071011103339/http://www.regiments.org/special/essays/tbibeng.htm . It states that excessive whitespace often indicates difficulty making an idiomatic translation, but at no point comments on how often this occurs in English translations, nor is this passage speaking about English translations specifically. This sentence should be edited or simply deleted. I'm in favor of the latter, but I'll give it a couple days before making the edit. Winston365 (talk) 05:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Inspired by Danish Palle Huld

Several recent sources in French and Danish state that Hergé was inspired by the world travel of the then 15-16 year old Palle Huld in 1928. Here's an English source: http://www.france24.com/en/20090110-tintin-80-years-still-kicking-belguim-cartoon-anniversary FunkMonk (talk) 10:57, 21 September 2010 (UTC)