Talk:Murder of Sophie Lancaster

Trial

Trial Commences 10th March 2008... the 5 named are as follows on Lancashire court web site, they will appear before HIS HONOUR JUDGE RUSSELL QC RECORDER OF PRESTON in Court number 10 :

http://www.courtnews1.co.uk/courtlists/current/prest_T080310.02.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.175.149.54 (talk)

Witness Intimidation

Joseph Hulme was also reportedly arrested for witness intimidation and bailed out, although charges for this weren't brough. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/03/ukcrime.sophielancaster — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18C:4300:2950:45B:53E1:822B:7773 (talk) 20:11, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Mention of non-notable book and author in Media reaction section

The paragraph about about Bizarre's "Proud to be Different" campaign is sufficient. The next paragraph, with a tenuous link to the murder of Sophie, gives undue weight to a selfpublished book by non-notable author. Other attempts at promoting this book, by several belligerent IPs, have been removed from the City of London Police, 7 July 2005 London bombings and 21 July 2005 London bombings articles. I think the article would benefit from the removal of this paragraph. Grim²³★ 03:35, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

This book was published with a dedication to Sophie with her mother's permission. While not notable and indeed self published why is Wierdo Mosher Freak included here (also non notable) while this book is considered irrelevant even though author was interviewed in Bizarre magazine in March 2010 about this and has auctioned a signed copy with profits going to the Sophie Lancaster foundation?

--189.248.87.125 (talk) 00:53, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

The book Weirdo.Mosher.Freak is entirely about the Sophie Lancaster murder, and has independent reviews in addition to the reference in the article. [this link is bad because Wikipedia is blocking it: www.aboutmyarea.co.uk/Lancashire/Rossendale/BB4/News/Local-News/171332-WEIRDO-MOSHER-FREAK-(if-only-theyd-stopped-at-name-The-Murder-of-Sophie-Lancaster] [1] [2] [3] Its inclusion in this article seems appropriate to me.

The book Stab Proof Scarecrows (I think its title should have been Stab-proof Scarecrows) is an opinion by its author about what he perceives is wrong with policing in Britain. From the cited reference plus these [4] [5] [6] [7] it seems Lance Manley (the author) is using the Sophie Lancaster murder as justification for his opinions rather than providing facts about it. Lance Manley is quoted "I have dedicated my book to Sophie with her mother Sylvia's permission. One chapter is about her attack and why it was one reason I resigned from the police."[8] While these views might be relevant to an article about policing in Britain, they seem somewhat tangential to this article. I haven't read the book, but if it does contain some fact about the Sophie Lancaster murder then that fact should be added to this article with this book as its reference.

Jim Craigie (talk) 13:31, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Book contains facts about the Sophie Lancaster murder in a chapter entitled "S.O.P.H.I.E Lancaster" and also mentions the charity in its glossary. Further it has "for Sophie Lancaster" as a dedication on page four of the book. Chapter details Lancaster's murder and Robert Maltby's assault and synopsises Judge's summing up when sentencing as well as known facts of case (e.g one gang member laughing with his mother in a police interview). It goes on to provide evidence that police in the UK spend a lot of time focussing on understanding criminals but are not exposed to victims during their probationary period (first 2 years). Author presents evidence that this is the reason that criminals like the ones that murdered Sophie are allowed to flourish as there is too much focus on care for criminals at the expense of victims. --189.158.80.220 (talk) 21:23, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

So what? As per Grim23 five months ago, it's a selfpublished book by non-notable author, so pretty much falls at the first hurdle of what constitutes a valid source. It's just one man's partisan opinion about his own short-lived part-time police career. Nick Cooper (talk) 22:37, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, little Nick. Funny you should crop up here after we locked horns on the Police Use of Firearms...page. You clearly are biased against cops to start with judging by that page's edits and are unsuitable to pass impartial judgment on whether this book is suitable. As evidence: the author was not a "short lived, part time" officer but was also employed full time. If you don't know what you're talking about then leave well alone. Finally, I would like to request 3rd party intervention on this as this twerp is getting right up my nose. Book is relevant for "media reaction" section as it is a piece of published media that has outsold Ali Dizaei and Ian Blair (former Met Commander and Commissioner)'s biographies on Amazon. Self publishing is NOT the same as Vanity publishing. Matador (who I believe published the book) are an offshoot of Troubador and they vet ALL potential manuscripts. Published work receives the same service as a regular published book (review copies, bookshops stocking it, inclusion on Amazon, adverts etc) but the author pays for this. Matador are as respected as any other publisher and are the ONLY self publisher reccomended in the Writers and Artists Yearbook (who loudly proclaim their hatred of vanity publishers). I am again confused as to why the author writing and publishing this book AND dedicating it to Sophie AND writing a whole chapter about the attack...is irrelevant.

If Nick deletes again I will simply put it back. However I will respect a 3rd party decision from someone other than this moron. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cziltang mexico (talk • contribs) 21:43, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Third opinion response Self-published books are rarely notable, and even more rarely acceptable as reliable sources. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 22:03, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough. I will now no longer post this. Nick still needs to grow up.--189.248.87.125 (talk) 01:23, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Please do not make personal attacks on fellow editors. Remember, civility is a core policy of Wikipedia. Grim²³★ 13:06, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I edit a wide range of pages, and first worked on this one in June 2008, which considerably pre-dates not only the attempts to add the self-published book in question to it, but also all of your contributions to Wikipedia (I'm also not sure what sort of "moron" wouldn't have been able to work that out themselves). I would probably have more grounds to suggest that you "followed" me here, but I'm not that conceited. Nick Cooper (talk) 14:29, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Nick left the following comment about me on Police use of Firearms in the Uk page. "Reverted biased removal of correctly sourced material. Also, "attempted terrorism" is appalling English. You should have paid more attention in class.)" Unless this is edited I'm not changing comment.--Cziltang mexico (talk) 21:37, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

That nerve still raw, is it? Nick Cooper (talk) 21:44, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

This page is for discussing improvements to the article Murder of Sophie Lancaster. If any of you have problems with other editors, take it to the individual's talk page and/or address the concern through procedures outlined at Wikipedia:Civil#Dealing_with_incivility or Wikipedia:Dispute resolution, as appropriate. In any case, knock off the personal attacks. - SummerPhD (talk) 00:00, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Killers posting on Facebook, from prison!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049042/Sophie-Lancaster-killer-Ryan-Herbert-posts-Facebook-photos-cushy-prison-life.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clarksmom (talk • contribs) 07:22, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

They were...

...Nu Metallers, not Goths. They listened to Metal, not Goth. A "mosher" is a Metalhead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.134.17.172 (talk) 16:15, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

The sources cited say "goth", so we say "goth". - SummerPhD (talk) 17:04, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

The sources also generally say "Mosher". And a "Mosher" is not a Goth. A Mosher is a Headbanger, a Metalhead in a moshpit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.134.0.46 (talk) 03:14, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

The sources say "mosher" and "goth", so we say "mosher" and "goth". If the terminology is incorrect in some way, you'll need to take it up with the sources. - SummerPhD (talk) 04:35, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Their attackers mistook them for metal kids ("moshers") but they were Goth. Even their parents called them goths. 2601:18C:4300:2950:45B:53E1:822B:7773 (talk) 20:06, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

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The Sophie Lancaster Foundation

Hi everyone. I'm thinking of making a Wikipedia page for The Sophie Lancaster Foundation. However, I'm not sure if there is enough information from third-party sources about the charity to make a page substantial enough for Wikipedia's standards. Therefore I was hoping to leave this here and ask people to please leave any links here with good information about the charity e.g. anything regarding: its history, activities, campaigns etc that are from third party sources (basically just not the charity's own website). These should come from reputable sources, such as news organisations (local or national), other charities, campaign groups etc. Information from its own website will be used if the page is created, its just when it comes to references on Wikipedia, third-party sources are preferable. Thank you for your time and thanks in advance to anyone that decides to help, even if you look and can't find anything, thank you for trying. Helper201 (talk) 06:45, 14 July 2017 (UTC)