Talk:Outline of arithmetic

Topics removed from listing

From the section Basic arithmetic concepts, I have removed the following:

Mathematics education -- National Numeracy Strategy -- Numeracy -- Standards-based mathematics -- Traditional mathematics - Pre-algebra

These are not topics in arithmetic per se, but rather in mathematics education. I will be paring the list further and will collect all trimmed topics here. JFPerry 17:48, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Braces -- Brackets -- Parentheses -- Cancel -- Numerator - Denominator -- Power of four -- Difference -- Product -- Square - Cube -- Whole number -- Mixed number - Tenth - Percent

Articles braces, brackets and parentheses removed. They are not basic. Rather, they would be considered within an article on aggregation (signs of aggregation) or the order of operations article. JFPerry 22:19, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Major rename proposal of certain "lists" to "outlines"

See Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Major rename proposal of certain "lists" to "outlines".

The Transhumanist 01:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Rename proposal for this page and all the pages of the set this page belongs to

See the proposal at the Village pump

The Transhumanist 09:08, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Obviously written by chimpanzees

Hey folks! Please base articles on sources, not on opinions about what stuff is about. Arithmetic remains a major area of mathematical research. In fact, until recently one could collect two million dollars to solve some basic problems in arithmetic that had been outstanding for over a hundred years. Unfortunately, only one million is currently available. 71.182.216.55 (talk) 05:21, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

hey.... maybe you didn't pay attention, but this header is ambiguous  :-) pma (talk) 14:08, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Rename proposal defeated, three "Outline of" titles restored

Due to a number of undiscussed moves, a proposal was made to rename outlines to "List of ... topics".

The proposal failed.

Therefore, based on the outcome of that discussion (which lasted from Sept 6 to Oct 12), I'm restoring the title of this article to "Outline of arithmetic". I have waited for that discussion to be completed to revert the undiscussed move of this page that occurred on Sept 6th.

Note that this article has been named "Outline of arithmetic" since June 11, 2009, having been renamed from "Topical outline of arithmetic" which it was named since January 8, 2009. All the articles named "Topical outline of" were renamed from "List of basic ... topics" on January 8, 2009 or thereabouts. The entire basic topics department was renamed at that time, because the lists had grown beyond the scope of "basic".

Until the recent rename, this article had never been named "List of arithmetic topics".

Recently, there were a number of mathematics-related lists renamed to outlines by a new editor who rampaged through several departments. Outline of arithmetic was not one of them. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics/Archive/2011/Sep#Undiscussed List -> Outline moves.

Apparently during the repair of that mass move, 3 outlines were named to "List of" that were not part of the mass move. This outline was one of the 3.

Sincerely, The Transhumanist 03:20, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Outlines versus bare lists

Back in September I renamed this page to List of arithmetic topics for consistency with other mathematics lists. My reasoning was that the current format of this page is similar to pages such as List of abstract algebra topics and many of the other pages mentioned at Lists of mathematics topics. By contrast, the page Outline of algebraic structures is much more than just a list. Now that this page has been renamed to Outline of arithmetic, I'd like to ask if there is any plan to rewrite this page along the same lines as Outline of algebraic structures.

Cross-reference: the same applies to the pages Outline of discrete mathematics and Outline of combinatorics. Jowa fan (talk) 07:05, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I support the "List of..." naming. -- 202.124.72.170 (talk) 13:55, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your question. First, we need to clarify that we are using the same contexts. You mentioned "much more than just a list". This makes me wonder what context of the word "outline" you are using. Because the way we've been using "outline" in articles titled "Outline of" is short for "hierarchical outline". A hierarchical outline is just a hierarchical list about the subject in its title. The other structure of lists is alphabetical.

A paragraph is not a list, and paragraph format is a format type of its own. Paragraphs tend to blur the structure of a hierarchical outline by not being part of its tree. Paragraphs are also a defining feature of regular articles which blurs the difference between lists and articles when included in lists.

There is a more general context of the word "outline" that means summary or overview. Entire books in paragraph format have been titled "Outline of", and all articles on Wikipedia could be considered overviews in that context. But such a context is useless to us, because it is essentially synonymous with "article". Lists serve a purpose different than articles based on their formatting. Remove the format distinction by adding paragraphs, and you have just created a second encyclopedia of articles within Wikipedia that overlaps with the first one. See Wikipedia:Content forking.

Getting back to hierarchical outlines, that is, hierarchically-structured lists, they differ from most "List of" articles. Most "List of" articles are item lists, that is they list the members of a discrete class that is included in their titles. Like List of photographers. This is because of the semantics of the titles themselves...

Topics lists, of which outlines are a type, cover an entire subject. So, "Outline of canoes and kayaks" isn't just a list of canoes and kayaks. It's a list of all sorts of topics about canoes and kayaks, including their types, their uses, their history, the sports in which they are used, etc. etc. The phrases "Outline of x" and "List of x topics" are more encompassing in meaning than "List of x".

Once upon a time there was a big mess in the lists portion of Wikipedia. Supporting the two kinds of topics lists there was only one form of title. Both types of topics lists were called "List of x topics". So there were two sets of lists competing for the same names! When there was an alphabetical "List of psychology topics", how could you make a structured "List of psychology topics" when the name was already taken?

The mess got worse when a WikiProject started building structured topics lists called "List of basic x topics", where the lists were intended to remain basic. But Wikipedia is designed for building pages, and to keep building them, and to split them once they become large. And so editors just kept adding on to the basic lists until they were no longer basic. They grew and grew until they were more comprehensive than the "List of x topics" lists. Big mess.

So, the basic topics project renamed itself, and renamed all the lists it worked on to "Outline of x". To fix the naming snafu between alphabetical and structured lists, the same people started the Index WikiProject and renamed virtually all of the alphabetical topics lists to "Index of x-related articles". They also started absorbing the remainder of the structured topics lists called "List of x topics" into the set of structured topics lists called "Outline of x".

There is no fundamental difference between a structured "List of x topics" and an "Outline of x". They are both topics lists. They are both hierarchically structured rather than being merely alphabetical.

You mentioned "bare lists". This brings us to the issue of baby outlines. That is, new outlines. That is, stubs. Before an outline is fully developed, it is less developed. Wikipedians are allowed and expected to make stubs of every article type, including outlines. Outlines are not like frogs which are called different names in different stages of development (frog egg, tadpole, then frog). Outlines are called "outlines" regardless of how developed they are. Bare lists that are organized in levels are still outlines. Initially, an outline is a bare tree structure. It might have only a few branches and might be only a couple levels deep. It takes time to develop outlines. But before they become extensive, they are still outlines. Because the word "outline" pertains to their hierarchical structure. They can be of any size and of any level of detail.

Here are some examples of outlines that differ in the degree and aspects of their development:

Examples of huge outlines include Outline of geography, Outline of Buddhism, Outline of human anatomy, and Outline of the United States.

Examples of very well-structured outlines include: Outline of cryptography and Outline of library science.

Examples of nearly fully developed outlines include Outline of forestry and Outline of cell biology.

Examples of outlines in the process of having annotations added : Outline of culture, Outline of chess, Outline of basketball, Outline of food preparation, and Outline of tennis.

Examples of outlines with good image support include:

• Outline of architecture
• Outline of canoes and kayaks
• Outline of sharks
• Outline of forestry
• Outline of motorcycles and motorcycling
• Outline of Vatican City

• Outline of Japan
• Outline of Thailand
• Outline of Taiwan
• Outline of Iceland
• Outline of France
• Outline of Gibraltar

Also, the title of an outline is irrelevant to its classification (which is based on the structure of its content). If a topics list is hierarchically structured, then that page contains an outline regardless of what you name it. The word "outline" describes the hierarchical format of the contents of the page.

Currently, Wikipedia has two sets of subject overview outlines. The outlines in the larger of the two sets are named "Outline of x" (there are about 535 of them). The outlines in the smaller set are called "List of x topics" (there are about 180 of those).

Fortunately, there isn't a great deal of overlap between the two sets. Only about 60 pages.

In answer to your question... Most non-region outlines, including Outline of arithmetic, Outline of combinatorics, and Outline of discrete mathematics are progressing in development toward the same standard, but some faster than others. Eventually they'll become comprehensive tree structures with annotations and images (figures, diagrams, and pictures).

I hope the above explanation has helped clarify the nature of outlines on Wikipedia. If you have any further questions, I will do my best to answer them.

Sincerely, The Transhumanist 10:01, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Quick explanation of Wikipedia outlines

"Outline" is short for "hierarchical outline". There are two types of outlines: sentence outlines (like those you made in school to plan a paper), and topic outlines (like the topical synopses that professors hand out at the beginning of a college course). Outlines on Wikipedia are primarily topic outlines that serve 2 main purposes: they provide taxonomical classification of subjects showing what topics belong to a subject and how they are related to each other (via their placement in the tree structure), and as subject-based tables of contents linked to topics in the encyclopedia. The hierarchy is maintained through the use of heading levels and indented bullets. See Wikipedia:Outlines for a more in-depth explanation. The Transhumanist 00:03, 9 August 2015 (UTC)