Talk:Operation Mihailovic

Outstanding copy edit issues

There are still some text I can't figure out how to interpret:

Section "The German plan": "which should achieve a total siege of the Ravna Gora and fire accurately set forth the plan made cleansing the ground area of 120 square kilometers."

Section "Chetnik forces" & "The offensive": "Mountainous King's Guard" (Alpine troops?)

Section "The offensive": "Then the third German combat column during 6 December Teočin occurred to the village and further to Brajić"

Direct quote that I don't want to touch without having the source text on hand: "Finished the cleaning action of the western part of the Morava valley of the Mihailovich's group. Mihilović escaped with a small number of followers. Captured the chief of staff Major Aleksandar Mišić, with Headquarters. This has broken the largest group of insurgents in Serbia. Mihailovich's head, a publication of the Serbs, was blackmailed for 200,000 dinars. South-west of Valjevo has are the remains of the gang."

Section "Interesting facts": "which are enabled liaison officer Capt. Josip Grbec" (the radio was repaired by Capt. Josip Grbec?)

Direct quote that I don't want to touch without having the source text on hand: "Will be good if we are sent a limo from London that they we no longer bother with hiking"

It is probably necessary to bring in someone who knows Serbian and can check the text against the sources/the Serbian wikipedia article to fix these issues.--Sus scrofa (talk) 21:22, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

I´ll try to fix and correct the text. The text is the translation from Serbian wiki article: [1]. FkpCascais (talk) 23:51, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Section "The German plan":

"On December 3, 1941 the German military command in Serbia lead by General Paul Bader created a plan and issued orders to their troops in which it was stated that the main aim was to destroy Mihailović´s detachments and his headquarters, located south of the town of Valjevo, which should be archived by a total siege of the Ravna Gora headquarter and the cleansing of the surrounding ground area of 120 square kilometers by a precisely established fire-arm plan."

Section "Chetnik forces" & "The offensive":

"Ravna Gora Royal Guard" ("Gorska does mean similarly to "montainous", but in this case it comes from "Ravna Gora", thus "Gorska")

Section "The offensive":

"Afterwords, on September 6, the Third German combat column followed towards the village of Teočin and next towards, Brajići."

Direct quote:

"The action of cleansing the western part of Morava valley from Mihailović´s man is concluded. Mihailović has escaped together with a small number of followers. The Headquarters were captured together with their chief-of-staff Major Aleksandar Mišić. As consequence, the main resistance group in the territory of Serbia was crushed. Mihailović´s head was set a price in Serbia in a reward of 200.000 dinars. In the region south-west of Valjevo Mihailović´s followers are still active."

Section "Interesting facts":

"The headquarters of General Mihailović were during January 1942 located in a house above the village of Jablanica, on the slopes of the snow covered mountain Vujan. Here general Mihailović was informed through the BBC Radio news, enabled by liaison officer Capt. Josip Grbec, that he had been appointed minister of the Army, Navy and Air Force.

Direct quote:

"It would be great if we receve a limo, so we don´t strouggle ourselfs on foot any more."

Well, I beleave this would be the most appropriate translation from the original text. Should we include them into the article? FkpCascais (talk) 01:21, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

I've incorporated the changes I believe are up to par into the article. I still believe the rest needs some work (one editor's opinion n.b.). --Sus scrofa (talk) 12:44, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Many thanks, and I apologise for the late response. FkpCascais (talk) 05:32, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

POV

The article misrepresents some of the history as documented in reliable sources, but I am thinking that we should wait until after the mediation on Mihailovic concludes to work those issues out here. In the meantime I ask that the NPOV template remain in place (unless someone outside of the mediation discussions wishes to fix the POV issues.). --Nuujinn (talk) 21:54, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

I restored the POV tag and added a refimprove tag, please do not remove these without either helping fix the problems or discussing the issues here. --Nuujinn (talk) 11:50, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

What are some of the POV issues?--Sus scrofa (talk) 14:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

A few examples:

-Due to new circumstances in late October 1941 between the two rebel groups, the Partisans and the Chetniks, a fratricidal war broke out. I am assuming this refers to Milhailovic's attack against Tito's Partisans.

-The armistice agreed to was not acted upon by Milhailovic despite Tito's request that they take joint actions.

-The article make no mention that Mihailovic approached and met with the Germans in November, who demanded his surrender, which he refused, nor that some of his forces cooperated with Nedic and the Germans in operations against the Partisans.

There are other problems as well. The article should be limited in scope to the operation only, and not include information not directly relevant to the subject, such as the "interesting facts" section. --Nuujinn (talk) 00:30, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

File:Mihailovic poternica 1941.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Mihailovic poternica 1941.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 8 December 2011 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 13:14, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Additional Sources for references

I'm in the process of copyediting this article as part of the Guild of Copy Editors March 2013 Backlog elimination drive and I noticed that it was tagged with Template:refimprove in June 2011. The article on Draža Mihailović is extensively referenced from a variety of books and other periodicals and several of the references in that article might be useful in Operation Mihailovic. Operation Western Morava, in particular is cited with three references in that article. There are probably additional facts that can be referenced from the Draža Mihailović article. I'm simply copyediting and not much of an expert on this topic so I'm leaving this and other related suggested changes to those of you who are more fluent with this subject. I will remove the GOCE template and post a notice on the talk page when my copyedit of this article is finished -- hopefully soon. - ʈucoxn\^talk 04:53, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Copy edit complete. You will notice that I removed many instances of "1941" and people's first names. Once a person in the account is established, it is only necessary to refer to them with both their last and first name in rare circumstances. You may also want to update the article's sourcing with page numbers from the books that were referenced. If the books are not easy to obtain, you may want to consider requesting the page numbers from the editors of the article on its other wikipedia pages here and here. - ʈucoxn\^talk 00:32, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much. We're working on a special project which will get to this article in the next few months and we'll keep your comments and suggestions in mind when we have a crack at it. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 00:34, 3 March 2013 (UTC)