Talk:Moneton

Proposed merge

Monetons of West Virginia were only suspected similar to Virginia's Monacan or more probably the Tutelo groups.

It has been suggested that this article, Moneton people, be merged with Monacan people. (Discuss)

Not wise for several reasons, demograhics for one and the 17th century Socioeconomic groups or contemporary sources trade and mingling groupings. Otherwise, the Monetons were associated with Tomahitans (predominantly Yuchi of eastern Tennessee) found in historic primary sources and not so directly found to be with the far easterly Monacan, a few hundred miles to the east on the James River and Bear Mtn areas. Albeit, Occhenechees (Akenatzy) may or may not have associated with Monacan, probably so when reading and considering A. Wood's contemporary letters on the James River nearby Monacan about Occhenechees. Occhenechees were middle men to the far westerly colonial Virginia and not to James River area Monacan, demograhics and geograghy proximity to the colonial settlements being the reasons.

The main reason for not merging is simply there still is not 100% surety if Monetons were more like Shattera of Big Sandy (Tutelo) or Akenatzy, or Yuchi (Tomahitans). There is only a growing concensus that Monetons were even Eastern Siouan, yet. In local circles of the scholastic chat, it has been suggested that Monetons could have even been a derivative of ancient Yuchi when looking at the archaeology of Eastern Tennessee and the late Clover Phase of West Virginia (c. 1550~1650 or so). No Sir, it's much to early to consider merging a well known people, Monacan, of the protohistoric and early historic Colonial Virginia, not far from Jamestown, with contemporaries of much less primary source beyond the Mountains to the westerly. One particular Monacan descent family I know well traces (documented by professional research studies, not the family themselves) the patrilineage to 1640 James River Monacan (Bear Mountain Cemetary not far away from the James River). This brings about a side note, sometimes we un-wittingly are writing about private, or the silent people's ancestors who sometimes help scientists working in the field whom by respect are also slow to speak-up publicly when it comes to private clan. Private family matters are not public matters— a human right to certain privacy, atleast in the USA and other modern countries.

Back ground in the briefest:

Monacan entered into Piedmont James River region of Virginia, estimated to be about CE 1250 before Woodland II period (1350–1607) of the Virginia. 1st half Clover phase or Early Clover dating CE 1450—1550 and the great change of Clover dates of CE 1550—1640 (Drooker and Cowan 2006), and Orchard phase (c. 1550 to historic) or arrival of the Southern Cult people leading to the early historic travels of Lederer and Arthur's (Wood 1674)to the Kanawhan region. Monacan were already in Virginia (from the north-west direction) during a number of middle Fort Ancient phases c. 1250~1525 or so, or the different kinds of local Ohio Valley & tributaries cultural groups. Conaughy (talk) 05:32, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Again, it is not wise at this early time to merge the two articles. Research is continuing by the officials paid by local universities and state culture departments working with descendant local Native American— yet on-going research and studies with still many un-answered questions remaining. Conaughy (talk) 04:01, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose merge. According to Raymond J. DeMallie in "Tutelo and Neighboring Groups" in Handbook of North American Indians, Volume 14: Southeast these are not the same people. The map on page 287 has the Monyton living on the Kanawha River at the headwaters of the New River in West Virginia (1671-1674), while the Monacan lived in the Blue Ridge Mountains between the Rivanna River and James River in Virginia. -Uyvsdi (talk) 05:32, 28 February 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
• Oppose merge as per Uyvsdis reasoning above. The article could use a serious going over though, it is in serious need of copyediting. Heiro 04:58, 1 March 2011 (UTC).

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 19:07, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Moneton people → Moneton – target is redirect to current title, created as a result of a move by Till Eulenspiegel on December 16, 2012. Moneton is a unique name so per TITLE and UNDAB and other guidelines, does not need nor should have a dab.

• View stats for "Moneton people" were 166 times in March 2014
  
• the Moneton redirect page got "Moneton" redirect got 78 hits - almost half, indicating that many people look this up without "people" attached. There are only two articles linked to the redirect, West Virginia and Blacksburg, Virginia, so while it might be assumed that all 78 came via those pages, there is no proof of that; and that the authors of those pages did not use "people" indicates or suggests that Moneton by itself is the normal local usage in WV.
  
• Google results for "Moneton people" excluding Wikipedia are 278 hits
  
• Google results for "Moneton" by itself with various exclusions of personal names and companies yields about 1,470 hits
  
• Between those two searches the "Moneton people" one is full of low-quality links, while the second google is full of high-quality hits that indicate the most common usage is "Moneton" without any disambiguation
• Google books has only one related title, of two results overall, for "Moneton people"
• Google books has also only one related title for "Moneton" - once all exclusions including mispellings re Moncton NB as with the regular google search. Skookum1 (talk) 10:18, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

• Minor point: I did create the redirect Moneton in 12/12 but not as a result of a move, just a new redirect...Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 11:35, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

OK, I'll look into the history of the main page itself; not that it matters; the above stats conclusively indicate that normal usage of this name is not the form Moneton people and that "Moneton" is the usual format for mentions of this group. I'll look on French Wikipedia to see if there's any notable Monetons, as indicated by the unfiltered google re the personal names mentioned; there may be, but they're not notable in the anglosphere and this would be the most common usage/primary topic in English, obscure though it is.Skookum1 (talk) 14:38, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

No results in French Wikipedia; they do suggest Moncton which is also found in the googles, both directly and misspelled or maybe OCR errored as "Moneton"; those are among the results excluded from the search; it's in both in fact.Skookum1 (talk) 14:57, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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TNT

This article was unreadable gibberish. There is almost nothing published about this tribe, so I rewrote it based on what little published information is available. Yuchitown (talk) 18:28, 12 November 2023 (UTC)Yuchitown

Moneton language

Kepler-1229b (talk · contribs): I didn't see a discussion for your proposed split, but, if you have the knowledge and want to create an article for Moneton language, by all means, go ahead. Yuchitown (talk) 18:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)