Talk:Milltown Cemetery attack

ENGL 212 class from Saginaw Valley State University

This article is going to be expanded and have all the facts and sources checked by an ENGL 212 class from Saginaw Valley State University. Please do not make any large changes to the article while it is being updated. 4/3/06

split into paragraphs

This article could really do with being split into paragraphs or sections.

Contradiction

Stone himself has gone on to renounce violence and accepts that peaceful discussion is the only way forward for the Northern Irish political situation, although he remains in the UDA, and in 2005 said he would fully support and take part in a campaign of violence if the UDA ended its ceasefire.

Isnt this a contradiction? (Khanada 08:09, 6 April 2006 (UTC))

Beating, torture, mutilation etc.

We now have a reference to a brief BBC article that uses the word 'torture', but what did the toture involve, other than the beating? If they were tortured in some other way, then there should be a reference to a source that gives details. If not, the word is redundant and POV, as was 'mutilated'. Scolaire 07:01, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I'd have to agree with you there. (Derry Boi 09:22, 1 October 2006 (UTC))

It's not POV, it's referenced from a reliable source. As to details, the BBC probably wouldn't want to print what happened to them, and I'm certainly not going to say it here. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 15:50, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

The BBC isn't actually a terribly reliable source for Northern Irish news. It's written by people from Northern Ireland for the majority of the NI related news and as such, often expresses POV. -- Pauric (talk-contributions) 22:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I disagree that the BBC is an unreliable source, but I've added another one. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 10:25, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

POV attributed

WP:NPOV mandates journalistic sensationalism should not be presented as fact, as was happening in this article.

• [1] - "Corporal Wood and Cpl. David Howes were dragged from their car, stripped, beaten and shot by members of a Roman Catholic funeral procession Saturday in Belfast, Northern Ireland" - no mention of "torture"
• [2] - "The men were dragged from the car and taken to a nearby sports ground where they were stripped and beaten. They were then taken to wasteground by Murphy and Maguire and shot repeatedly - no mention of "torture"
• [3] - "who took part in the torture and shooting" - aha, the first mention of torture. Now read further on in the same article and see what the torture consisted of - "The men were bundled into a nearby sports ground, where they were stripped to their underwear and beaten. Murphy and Maguire then took them to wasteground, where they were shot repeatedly by two gunmen" - so it's the exact same as the other sources; stripped, beaten and shot.

Just one newspaper has decided to call the events "torture" but according to policy that doesn't make it a fact. Opinions attributed to the people that hold them, as policy mandates. Freegan 02:02, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:06, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Waving guns around?

Where is the claim that "Scenes relayed on live television showed the two corporals waving their guns before being cornered by black taxis" coming from? It's completely untrue. Neither man drew his weapon until AFTER they had been blocked in by the mob, at which point Cpl Wood drew his and fired a single warning shot into the air. To claim that they were "waving guns around" is straightforward invention. To write that you either a) Haven't seen the video and therefore shouldn't be explaining what it shows or b) Are lying. Please don't reinsert it. --FergusM1970^{Let's play Freckles} 14:34, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Expansion (March 2013)

This has been rated as a "Start-class" article since 2007. However, it has been greatly expanded since then and I think it now deserves a higher rating. I added a lot more (reliably-sourced) information today, tho I think it could do with more sources. ~Asarlaí 04:19, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Adding Milltown Malbay Massacre

Milltown Malbay Massacre should be added to the See also due to the name similarities. -- Thats Just Great (talk) 22:03, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

No, I do not think so. 1) It was not a massacre as there where only three people murdered; 2) it took place in the context of another conflict (Irish revolutionary period) and 3) it took place in another country. It has not even the slightest connection between them, except the name of the place where it took place. The Banner talk 08:42, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

The Milltown Cemetery attack had 3 deaths and it is known as the "Milltown Cemetery killings or Milltown Massacre." The similarities in the name are precisely why there should be an addition to the "See also." Or a note on top. The name can be "Attack on Milltown Malbay" or "Milltown Malbay police shooting", "British attack at Milltown Malbay" - Thats Just Great (talk) 16:33, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

In Milltown Malbay it is known as the "Shooting at Canada Cross". Not even remotely connected to your proposed titles. The Banner talk 18:09, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Perfect! The see also entry could be: Milltown Malbay's Shooting at Canada Cross -- Thats Just Great (talk) 03:57, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Why? What you propose is not a real existing name but a made up one. The Banner talk 08:59, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Oh I thought you claimed "Milltown Malbay it is known as the 'Shooting at Canada Cross'." I think it is important to have an entry in the see also because the names are so similar. Not everyone who uses Wikipedia is from Ireland. When I was researching, as you claim the "Shooting at Canada Cross," all searches tried to direct me to this article instead. It would have been incredibly useful for people outside of Ireland to have clear information like Battles that take place at locations that in similar sounding places like this article: Milltown Massacre and Milltown Malbay Shooting. They both have the same amount killed and they have similiar names -- Thats Just Great (talk) 16:03, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

So, you are just staring at a similarity in name and because of that you think the incidents are related? You even fail to notice that the title of this article is Milltown Cemetery attack and not Milltown Cemetery Massacre? A title you totally have invented for the shooting in Milltown Malbay? The Banner talk 16:27, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Are we looking at the same article? The first line says "The Milltown Cemetery attack (also known as the Milltown Cemetery killings or Milltown Massacre)." Yes, exactly I am pointing out the similarity in the name! That is the whole point. I know they are not related! BUT they have similar names. This causes confusion to people who don't like in Ireland. Look at Wikipedia article for "Apple." The fruit and the company are mentioned in both articles because they have similar names not because they are related. It should be the same here.-- Thats Just Great (talk) 16:48, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

I have no doubt that Milltown Massacre will create even more confusion, but if like to put it in... Happy days. The Banner talk 17:36, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Aftermath

I added an incident described by Michael Stone in the "Milltown" chapter of his autobiography None Shall Divide Us to the Aftermath section. If anyone has anything to add to this, feel free to discuss it here first.

--NelsonEdit2 (talk) 10:24, 5 October 2022 (UTC)