Talk:Michel von Tell

WP:N

WP:NSPORT Motorsport- 8 WR

Requested move 4 September 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Michel V. Tell → Michel von Tell – Title is salted; article seems substantially different from what could have been in the deleted 2014 article that a new AFD would be needed. power~enwiki (π, ν) 23:42, 3 September 2020 (UTC)—Relisting. Jerm (talk) 21:42, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). œ^™ 07:59, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

@Power~enwiki: Agreed that this article is substantially different but I have concerns that this is still the same subject as in the old article, is poorly written, and was created by a single-purpose account. That said, i'd unsalt but it should probably go straight to another AfD. Also pinging original protecting admin @Floquenbeam:. -- œ^™ 08:09, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello you both. I see. Hm but I am not sure what you want discuss? WP:NSPORT Motorsport- 8 WR. says it is ok doesnt it? BIanca617 (talk) 09:50, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

• Sources are great : Much better then in most other articles.
• Notability is clearly given : WP:NSPORT Motorsport- 8 WR + WP:GNG (over 100

Newspaper sources from all over the world) + Imdb + Top 100 Pokerplayer + Baseball Pro and so on. → So there cant be any Problem and Debat about this. → →

About the Name thing. Let me try to help you. "Von" ist like the english of. Guy of Gisbourne for example. If you short it, it is "v." → Small, because "of" is no Name its just part of a Name. Seams an english speaking guy Changed Michel v. Tell into Michel V. because he thought "von" is a Name like Bill or Vince. He cant know this. So both is corrrect. "Michel v." and "Michel von". The point that there was an old article is no reason for WP:AFD. There are 10 articles about "Michael Jordan (the Alien)" 🙂 Means nothing. The important thing is 1 notability + 2 good sources. → Both we got. Mutch better then in most other new articles. BIanca617 (talk) 03:54, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

"Michel v. Tell" seams fine to me.

Found him also with this in the Rally Database https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/254248-michel-vtell/

Keep The topic has received adequate attention in sources. It is therefore notable and so should not be deleted per our policies including WP:ATD; WP:BITE; WP:CENSOR; WP:NOTPAPER; WP:PRESERVE ~~— Preceding unsigned comment added by LindaAfrika (talk • contribs) 13:53, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

7 Days ar more then over. After 1 month I guess we close it. And set it to orginal small v. like it was before. BIanca617 (talk) 23:54, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, BIanca617, move requests should not be closed nor page(s) renamed by editors who are involved in the request's survey or discussion. The article has been moved back to Michel V. Tell and should remain there at least until an uninvolved editor closes this request. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 01:52, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Merge to Harley-Davidson LiveWire

As far as I can tell the reason this article exists is that a few media outlets wrote about the unofficial "record" set riding the Harley-Davidson LiveWire motorcycle. As far as I am concerned, an unofficial record is the same as not a record. Official just means that some ostensibly reputable body like Guinness or FIMA set some rules and criteria and that body says that their rules were met. So some guy says he ran a mile in 3:42. Nobody has proof or can tell us what criteria were met to ensure that record is comparable to any other record. Like measuring whether he really ran a mile or only 3/4 mile. That's an unofficial record.

But a bunch of media covered it anyway, we're told. Supposedly "Global press and large networks such as CNBC reported on the motorsport event" though I can't find evidence CNBC did any such thing, let alone the "global press". Or that this "record" that wasn't officiated by anybody qualifies as a "motorsport event". Let's say sources are right about all that. What have we got here? What we have is the significant claim that the H-D electric motorcycle can achieve distances somewhat longer than the rated distance of the battery. That is a claim about the Harley-Davidson LiveWire. None of the sources imply that the success of this non-record had anything to do with Michel von Tell. If it did, whatever magic he does when he rides is not well publicized. For us to have an entire article about Michel von Tell, we need facts about Michel von Tell to convey. First of all, we need to tell readers why Michel von Tell has an article about him. I don't see a lot here. He had non-notable success knocking around a few unrelated fields before getting a moment of fame because of this motorcycle. I'm 100% certain if this were a woman, the article would be deleted speedily. I've observed numerous WP:AfD discussions with roughly the same level of notability and women at this level get deleted every time. Since this is a man, I think it would be a waste of time to nominate this article for deletion, per WP:SNOW.

But what I can say for sure is that if you delete all the non-encyclopedic fluff and trivia, like his sixth place finish in a rally that nobody has heard of or that he worked in the financial markets for a while, we end up with two sentences, and those two sentences are entirely about the Harley-Davidson LiveWire: someone once managed to go 1,000 miles in 24 hours, even though its official range rating is only 146 miles, and several local media showed up to observe it. Those two sentences belong at Harley-Davidson LiveWire. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 02:30, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Well stated, but WP editors would never try to delete something like the AMA Rider of the Year just because she was a woman. Oh, wait, they would. ☆ Bri (talk) 20:56, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

• There is nothing like an "official" world record. There is nothing like the United Nations Buero of "offical" records.

A record can be proven or not. And it is. The Problem is some uneducated people think the alcohol commpany GuBo is someting "official". They take crasy records from people witch pay them money for.

• https://www.quora.com/How-does-Guiness-World-Records-make-money
• https://www.tpr.org/arts-culture/2020-09-18/the-surprising-business-model-behind-guinness-world-records

• The biggest newspaper of the country Switzerland says its a proven Worldrecord

https://www.blick.ch/auto/news_n_trends/harley-davidson-livewire-schweizer-faehrt-weltrekord-auf-elektrotoeff-id15818340.html

• The biggest newspaper of the country Liechtenstein do

http://archive.org/details/2020032409h5559

• The bigest magazin of the county Liechtenstein say

https://www.lie-zeit.li/2020/06/zu-besuch-beim-weltmeister-in-der-villa-turm/ Thats much more and indipendent then an alcohol company witch take money for printing customers "records".

• Top 100 Poker Player of the country

• IMDB credit about a movie with a famouse Filmmaker Peter Scholl-Latour

• Started at a notable national Rally Race

• Played pro baseball

• Over 100 internationa newspapers write about him but sure some like more the article about

the man with the longest fingernails https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Shridhar_Chillal no way BIanca617 (talk) 15:25, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

OK. So do you support or oppose merging to Harley-Davidson LiveWire? --Dennis Bratland (talk) 19:50, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

• Support the proposal, as a self-claimed 'record' with no corroboration except for undisclosed written testimony from unknown observers. I cannot see any candid images of the actual ride - this subject reckons to have a long-standing youtube presence, boasting of such, so where's the moving pictures? A missed opportunity. Where are the still images of the charging locations?

  I have viewed/translated a few more webhosts which all seem to be based on the same press release, often carrying to same promotional/professional images. One such annotates acknowledgement by naming the various photographers. This is how 'new media' operates - no premises, no archives, no due diligence, no fact checking - simply taking press releases and expanding their own website with new information supplied to them. Traditional newspapers operate in the same way. Some articles claim that Harley Davidson was involved; where is the Harley official input/recognition? An attempt to establish a similar article has been made by one of the same Usernames at Italian Wikipedia. European Wikis may have lower standard of requirement. Enough time has been spent here at En Wiki.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:07, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

• Comment When Kawasaki claimed an unofficial world record they did have cameras present.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

at Rocknrollmancer I told beged you now for the 3rd time to stop personal attack me. You ad hominem, rude, do anti wp:bio edits without sources and so on. I showed you 10 great notable sources witch say its a proven wolrd record. Your personal point of view my be an other but thats not Wikipedia! So 4th and last time. Pls be kind and lets be friends. Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not

WP:KIND Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks WP:FOC

The article is a clear stay. Else there would be

hundreds and thousands other articles to merge first. Also its a bike and a green climate record no livewire record. Plus there are 10 other notable things in the article. Not like in the article about the man who dont cut his fingernails. Shridhar_Chillal WP:ATD; WP:BITE; WP:CENSOR; WP:NOTPAPER; WP:PRESERVE --BIanca617 (talk) 16:44, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

So what did Michel von Tell do that made the record possible, that wouldn’t happen if someone else were to hop on a LiveWire and try the same thing? None of the articles mention any special skills or innovations on his part. That’s why I don’t see a point in an article about him. —Dennis Bratland (talk) 17:13, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

No room for any Debate or room for personal Theories or PPOV. A record is notable acording WP Rules. Shridhar_Chillal Lee Redmond --BIanca617 (talk) 19:09, 8 October 2020 (UTC)