Talk:Horizontal bar

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would like to know muscles targeted on horizontal bar or chin up bar work out. Thanks much —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.157.85.50 (talk • contribs)

Excerpt is bogus

The excerpt does not describe any form of modern High Bar work, and, to a gymnastics professional in the united states, is really quite baffling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.128.30.140 (talk • contribs)

Merge with Chin-up bar?

Is there any difference between Horizontal bar and Chin-up bar? Shouldn't these articles be merged? 93.175.237.107 (talk) 07:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

They are different. The horizontal bar is a standardized, free-standing apparatus used in gymnastics, whereas a chin-up bar is a non-standardized apparatus used for play or exercise. Lambtron (talk) 12:53, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

German invention?

Per Friedrich Ludwig Jahn and the cite of Goodbody, John (1982). The Illustrated History of Gymnastics. London: Stanley Paul. ISBN 0-09-143350-9., can anyone who has access to a copy of the book please confirm that the horizontal bar was indeed Jahn's invention, ideally with a date and page number too. Thanks. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:30, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I've requested the book on interlibrary loan. This says Johann Christoph Friedrich GutsMuths introduced the horizontal bar 23 years before Jahn made some design changes, which did not yet arrive at the final design we know today. Like many inventions, there were many contributors who made small improvements over a long period. I think we need to classify disputed inventions, where competing claims contradict each other, and incremental inventions, where many people participate in the evolution, in a way that makes the facts clear. Reducing it to simple lists and categories destroys the necessary nuance, but that can be fixed by better-defined lists and categories. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 17:38, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

The first chapter of The Illustrated History of Gymnastics describes the steps in the development and evolution of gymnastics, but doesn't specifically credit any piece of equipment as being anyone's invention. The focus is more on the changes in the way the equipment is used. It says on page 13, "Jahn read Guts Muths's book and, in 1811, opened the first outdoor gymnastics center..." and that Jahn is "regarded by admirers as the father of modern gymnastics." Jahn's work had much more to do with promoting gymnastics in general, along with a martial and nationalist enthusiasm. His motivation was to use gymnatics to combat the "dissolute life-style" at universities and prevent, after the Napoleonic wars, another humiliation on the battlefield. He was a battalion commander and a secret service agent, and was jailed for 6 years for some kind of political intrigue. At any rate, gymnastics was 'invented' by the Minoans 2700-1400 BC and practiced by the Greeks and used by the Romans in military training.

I have this book until September 5 if there's anything else that needs verification.--Dennis Bratland (talk) 09:47, 19 August 2013‎

Thanks for the research, Dennis. Apparently the H-bar has evolved since its inception many centuries ago and its original inventor is unknown. What is clear, though, is that although some of that evolution resulted from the efforts of Germans, the H-bar itself is not a German invention. Lambtron (talk) 15:31, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Just to clarify, in my citation above from The Horizontal Bar I wrote that "GutsMuths introduced the horizontal bar 23 years before Jahn" but the source actually says he "introduced the horizontal bar to the gymnasium." I should have emphasized that the paragraph above says that the horizontal bar was used by acrobats going back through the Middle Ages, all the way to ancient Greece and Rome. So it's my fault for misleading Andy Dingley. Sorry for that. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 16:46, 16 May 2014 (UTC)