Talk:Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette/GA1

GA Review

GA first impressions.

I am quite happy to look at the article, but this will not be for a day or so. One thing though on first impressions it looked an easy GA review, well referenced etc; But things like

• ...subsequently after on (which is it) 24 April his grandfather ... in Ancestry and
• ...After a thirty-two day journey, (he?) waited four days for the Continental Congress to declare, on 31 July 1777, "that his services be accepted and that,... in American Revolution.
• These are two examples of an article that needs a slow read through, (hopefully after a rest with the amount of editing the spotlight has done prior to nomination). An idea might be to print out a version and sit and read it. I do not want the first review to be lots of ...I don't understand what you mean by X Y or Z. Hope everybody is fine about this. Thanks. Edmund Patrick – confer 20:54, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

GA first review

General things that need looking at in no particular order.

• Second Departure from France ... reference (18), refused entry to the website.
• ...The king "officially" forbade his leaving after British spies discovered his plan...should be referenced and does that mean that he "unofficially" did not forbid his leaving?
• ...The ship's captain carried $8,000 (€5,446.96)... is this the amount then or respective amount today. It needs to be made clear and also the same done to

...Ancestry... income of 25,000 livres. Augmented upon the death of an uncle, thirteen year old Lafayette was left with a yearly sum of 120,000 livres... have a look at [1] it might assist.

• ...Following pursuit by two British ships...should be referenced.
• Brandywine and Albany
• ...After two months of repair, Lafayette ... is a strange way of saying it. Do you mean he recuperated / rested / "got better".
• Virginia and Yorktown
• ...crossed paths and effected a juncture of their units.... I am not sure what this means?
• ...Cornwallis surrendered on 19 October 1781 under a combined volley... a combined volley of what?
• After the Revolution
• ...Virginie... is this spelt correctly?
• National Guard
• ...Lafayette then took the queen onto the balcony to confront the crowd,... how? why? what did she actually do? was he 'saying here is the WQueen under arrest@ or was he allowing her to shout at the crowd?
• ..After suppressing a riot in April 1791 he resigned his commission and was compelled to retain it... After suppressing a riot in April 1791 he resigned his commission but was compelled to retain it reads better.
• Conflict and imprisonment
• ...Lafayette knew this meant his beheading, so he sought asylum in the United States. This did not happen, and on 19 August, ...this needs referencing, an important statement why was he refused asylum?
• Later life and death
• ...Due to her malady, worsened by the scurvy she fell sick with in prison, ... would I think read better as ...Due to her malady, worsened by the scurvy she contracted in prison, ...
• ...Lafayette's final passage through New York en route before returning home to France on the frigate USS... to ...Lafayette's final passage through New York en route home to France on the frigate USS...

Questions?

• Is it Marquis or marquis, the Marquis article has upper case / title, occasionally in the article it is uppercase and sometimes not. If there is a reason a note / refererence or even mention in text would be good if not it must be consistant. Same with duchesse d'Ayen in Education and marriage; have a look at Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(capital_letters)#Titles

a long list I know but much of it is superficial English usage. An excellent article I learnt from it, what more can one say. Edmund Patrick – confer 18:20, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Spotlight checklist

Even though spotlight's not officially working on this article any more - we're still watching it :)--danielfolsom 18:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

• Second Departure from France
• reference (18), refused entry to the website.
  • Found on the web archive [2]--danielfolsom 18:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
• ...The king "officially" forbade his leaving after British spies discovered his plan...should be referenced and does that mean that he "unofficially" did not forbid his leaving?
  • YReferenced and reworded a bit. It's a bit debateable. The king did, officially, recall Lafayette back to his unit. And he was threatened with arrest by the Bordeaux commandant. This has been clarified and recast. Lazulilasher (talk) 03:01, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
• ...The ship's captain carried $8,000 (€5,446.96)... is this the amount then or respective amount today. It needs to be made clear and also the same done to

...Ancestry... income of 25,000 livres. Augmented upon the death of an uncle, thirteen year old Lafayette was left with a yearly sum of 120,000 livres... have a look at [3] it might assist.

• • YThe 25,000 livres is 18th century terms. However, the $8,000 (referenced to Holbrook) is not clarified. I assume it's in 18th century terms, however I cannot be certain. Therefore, I recast the sentence to: The ship's captain intended to stop in the West Indies to sell cargo he had carried, however Lafayette, fearful of arrest, bought the cargo to avoid the islands. Let me know if this is sufficient. Lazulilasher (talk) 02:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
• ...Following pursuit by two British ships...should be referenced.
  • {[y}}This was cut. I looked in 3 books and couldn't cite it, so it's been removed. Lazulilasher (talk) 02:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
• Brandywine and Albany
• ...After two months of repair, Lafayette ... is a strange way of saying it. Do you mean he recuperated / rested / "got better".
  • Changed to "rest" [4] --danielfolsom 18:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
• Virginia and Yorktown
• ...crossed paths and effected a juncture of their units.... I am not sure what this means?
  • It meant they combined forces–reworded anyways [5]--danielfolsom 18:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
• ...Cornwallis surrendered on 19 October 1781 under a combined volley... a combined volley of what?
  • Y Artillery :) Lazulilasher (talk) 02:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
• After the Revolution
• ...Virginie... is this spelt correctly?
  • Yes :) But, I'll double check later. Lazulilasher (talk) 18:41, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
    • YAnd, verified....daughter's full name: Marie-Antoinette Virginie, although she was known commonly as Virginie. Added full name in interest of keeping it NPOV. Lazulilasher (talk) 02:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
• National Guard
• ...Lafayette then took the queen onto the balcony to confront the crowd,... how? why? what did she actually do? was he 'saying here is the WQueen under arrest@ or was he allowing her to shout at the crowd?
  • Y Recast and added: The agreement appeared reasonable until Louis XVI declined to ratify the Declaration of Rights. On 5 October Parisian crowds found bakeries empty throughout the city. In response to both events, a mob moved to Versailles to demand flour from the royal family and their relocation to Paris. Lafayette awoke the King and replaced his guards with National Guardsmen whom were later shot by the mob. In an effort to quiet the crowd, Lafayette took the queen onto the Palace's balcony, "kissed her hand", and made a plea for order. Lafayette then convinced the royal family to relocate to the Tuileries Palace in Paris. Let me know how that sounds to you Lazulilasher (talk) 03:01, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
• ..After suppressing a riot in April 1791 he resigned his commission and was compelled to retain it... After suppressing a riot in April 1791 he resigned his commission but was compelled to retain it reads better.
  • Reworded [6]--danielfolsom 18:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)http://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Gilbert_du_Motier,_marquis_de_La_Fayette&diff=233379806&oldid=233379581
• Conflict and imprisonment
• ...Lafayette knew this meant his beheading, so he sought asylum in the United States. This did not happen, and on 19 August, ...this needs referencing, an important statement why was he refused asylum?
  • Y Thanks for pointing this out. The wording was vague. What happened was that Lafayette had realized he would be beheaded, so he struck out for England in order to seek asylum in the US. This does not happen, as he was captured by the Austrians and put in prison. I clarified the requisite paragraph. Lazulilasher (talk) 03:01, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
• Later life and death

*...Due to her malady, worsened by the scurvy she fell sick with in prison, ... would I think read better as ...Due to her malady, worsened by the scurvy she contracted in prison, ...

*...Lafayette's final passage through New York en route before returning home to France on the frigate USS... to ...Lafayette's final passage through New York en route home to France on the frigate USS... Done  Mm40 (talk | contribs)  21:54, 21 August 2008 (UTC) Questions?

• Is it Marquis or marquis, the Marquis article has upper case / title, occasionally in the article it is uppercase and sometimes not. If there is a reason a note / refererence or even mention in text would be good if not it must be consistant. Same with duchesse d'Ayen in Education and marriage; have a look at Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(capital_letters)#Titles
  • YWell, it can be either. This article used the French spellings, which can be either capitilized or not. Since the name of the page was lowercase, I changed them all to lowercase for consistency (I think I got them all :) ). See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(France_&_French-related)#Noble_titles. Let me know if you see anymore and I can change them up! Lazulilasher (talk) 03:01, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the thorough review! Lazulilasher (talk) 03:01, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

GA second review

• National Guard
• ...Lafayette awoke the King and replaced his guards with National Guardsmen who were later shot by the mob. In an effort to quiet the crowd... who was shot the King's guards or the National Guards, please rephrase to make clear.
  • I just clarified this. Lafayette implored the King to allow his royal bodyguards to be replaced. Most of them were replaced, but the ones that remained were executed by the crowd. I cited this directly to a page, as well. Lazulilasher (talk) 17:39, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• Conflict and imprisonment
• ...Marat and the Committee of Surveillance constructed a guillotine at the Place du Carrousel, and throughout September approximately 1,400 people were executed... this sentence is in to do what? It acn stay but I am not sure why it is there, to paint a picture of the changes within France at the time, if so phrase it so that it says that.
  • Well, my aim was to demonstrate that the atmosphere in Paris was becoming more and more murderous as the country began its descent into the Reign of Terror. Hence, this explains Lafayette's knowledge that he would likely be executed upon return to Paris. I rephrased it, please let me know how you think it reads. Lazulilasher (talk) 17:39, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• Conflict and imprisonment
• ...Presently, many wives of Jacobin's enemies were divorcing their husbands... reference please
  • I couldn't find a ref, so I'll bring it up in channel. If no one can, we'll remove it.  Mm40 (talk | contribs)  11:25, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
    • It is citable to Adopted Son, page 413. Many wives of the enemies of state (including moderates, like Lafayette) were divorcing their husbands to escape the guillotine's blade.... Lazulilasher (talk) 17:39, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Can someone please read through the whole thing, every so often the "used English" is a bit odd, hopefully I have found most of them. I have to say although there is a feel of a "bit if a rtush" this article has improved through the care of spotlight. Well done. Edmund Patrick – confer 20:02, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. I'm tired now, but will look at these tomorrow. Cheers, Lazulilasher (talk) 03:46, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I think we got it. I'm going to read over it once more for copy edits, then I'll contact you on your talk page. Regards, Lazulilasher (talk) 17:40, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

GA third review

Dear Spotlight. I was going to pass the article after another read through. Can you check the changes I have made, in case I have changed the intended meanings. After that I will pass it ... hopefully.

• National Guard
• Lafayette proposed plans to have a demanding schedule for the soldiers of the National Guard to police the Commune of Paris.... I have added the word to police, does this give the meaning you wished?
• Later life
• ... including personal problems and the need to work for liberty in France... does this give the meaning you wished?

I have changed it to "the desire to work".  Mm40 (talk | contribs)  12:50, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

• ... who revoked the post after Lafayette once again called for the abolition of slavery... does this give the meaning you wished? Edmund Patrick – confer 15:11, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

They all seem ok to me.  Mm40 (talk | contribs)  12:50, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

• Second opinion

The article needs a simple copy edit. Otherwise it seems fine. Examples from the lead:

• While serving in the Revolutionary War, he was wounded at the Battle of Brandywine and organized a successful retreat. - how are these two event connected, since an "and" connects them?
• an augmented French commitment to the war. - why not a simpler "increased French commitment"? Augmented is not a very common word and it is used again in the discussion of his income so it stands out.
• He would serve as Vice President - unnecessary word: He served as Vice President.
• Upon his return, he blocked Cornwallis' troops at Yorktown, while the combined armies of Washington and Rochambeau arrived. - I know what is meant here, I think. The combined armies arrived as reinforcement and together they won?
• During the Revolution, Lafayette attempted to control order - I do not know what this means.

• Other examples in the article are some run-on sentences and more uses of unnecessary words like "would".
• Augmented upon the death of an uncle, the thirteen year old Lafayette - was Lafayette augmented or was his income augmented?
• Why is this in quotes: "as if by accident"
• Lafayette felt that he would not be needed in Napoleon's government, thus he left Paris. - should be semicolon
• They both exchanged gifts - They exchanged gifts
• he received, perhaps, more commemoration and admiration there than any other foreign visitor in American history. - why the "perhaps" - did he or not? Maybe one of the most commenorated (misspelled) and admired - do you have a citation for that?
• Also, no ALL CAPS in the reference citation.
• Not sure why Time Magazine is in the Works cited. No author is given and I don't see the citation. If it is cited, it could just be cited directly.

Hope this helps, —Mattisse (Talk) 15:37, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I will take a look at these later this evening when I return home. Thanks for taking a look. Lazulilasher (talk) 16:26, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

The above examples were samples from the lead only. The whole article needs a copy edit for similar problems with the prose.

—Mattisse (Talk) 16:34, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Okie doke, will work on it over the next few days, and see if I'm able to corral an old copy-editing friend of mine to come around, also :) Lazulilasher (talk) 15:08, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

GA Final

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

---

great, a wonderful article which spotlight and others have improved immensely.

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   I have learnt from this article. Thanks it was a joy. Well done a GA Pass. Edmund Patrick – confer 18:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)