Talk:Diisopropylbenzene

Requested move 19 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved, all objections appear to have been assuaged (closed by non-admin page mover) BegbertBiggs (talk) 16:55, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

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• Diisopropylbenzenes → Diisopropylbenzene
• Trimethylbenzenes → Trimethylbenzene
• Tetramethylbenzenes → Tetramethylbenzene
• Cymenes → Cymene

– Groups of chemical compounds have singular titles, not plural. All these plural-titled articles were created by User:JWBE. A couple examples out of many: Alkyne, Chlorotoluene Michael7604 (talk) 19:40, 18 October 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). Steel1943 (talk) 17:13, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

The following discussion thread was initiated on WP:RMTR.@Michael7604, Sennecaster, and Herostratus: Pinging current participants for awareness. Steel1943 (talk) 17:17, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

@Michael7604; WP:CHEMGROUP says For groups of compounds named after a simple parent compound, articles about the group should be located at the plural of the parent compound name; would any of your listed requests fall into this? Sennecaster (Chat) 23:47, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Phenolates falls into that (phenol), so I removed it. I'm not sure if vanilloids would fall into that (vanillin being the parent compound), but I lean towards move to vanilloid, since there's no ambiguity here, as if they were called vanillins instead of vanilloids. Michael7604 (talk) 00:23, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Looking at the example Chalcone and Chalconoid, vanilloids should be moved to vanilloid. Michael7604 (talk) 01:29, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Alright, thank you for helping us clear things up :) Sennecaster (Chat) 02:33, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I object to any of these moves given that it sounds like there's some need for discussion and figuring what's what, and this isn't the place for it. Let's open a thread, or an RM, or an RfC, someplace where the conversation can be stretched out and last for awhile and exist in an archive. Talk page of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (chemistry) or someplace. Herostratus (talk) 06:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chemicals#Should articles such as Trimethylbenzenes and Cymenes have singular or plural titles?. Michael7604 (talk) 16:39, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Comment: I have referred Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chemicals#Should articles such as Trimethylbenzenes and Cymenes have singular or plural titles? to this discussion as the result of this move discussion can be used as a precedent to determine what needs to occur at the aforementioned WikiProject discussion. In addition, official move requests are advertised to the move request board, potentially bringing in additional editors to comment who do not monitor WikiProject talk pages. Steel1943 (talk) 17:20, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support as proposed, per my comments at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chemicals#Should articles such as Trimethylbenzenes and Cymenes have singular or plural titles?. These pages only discuss isomers, so the singular parent compound name should be used (though the plural is an appropriate redirect). They are essentially {{Chemindex}} articles that serve to list and link to the isomers that may be referred to by a simple base name. Use of plural per WP:CHEMGROUP applies to article about derivatives of a simple compound, but clarification about the distinction should be added there. Mdewman6 (talk) 18:01, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Not commenting, no knowledge of the field, simply thought that as a procedural thing it'd be better to have a proper discussion to make sure no mistakes are made. (I assume that WP:CHEMGROUP follows widely accepted practice in the field? Because User:JWBE seems to have the chops to write these articles, but didn't follow WP:CHEMGROUP, which seems a little odd if CHEMGROUP is the generally accepted practice in meatspace? If not, I personally still have no objection these moves, but a pointer at the CHEMGROUP talk page to the recently initiated discussion and/or a a separate discussion at CHEMGROUP talkwould be in order I suppose?) Herostratus (talk) 18:16, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

  Even in the field of chemistry everyone has their own practices of what they call chemicals, but here is an example of how WP:CHEMGROUP reflects real life terminology:

  We call a bottle of pure n-hexane "hexane", but a mixture of hexane isomers "hexanes", which could have its own page if it had enough notability. Such a page could be both a list of isomers and also about the properties of the mixture of isomers. The reason for using the different names is to differentiate pure n-hexane (simply called "hexane" as a common name) and a mixture of hexanes isomers.

  But a mixture of diisopropylbenzene isomers (containing 1,2-diisopropylbenzene, 1,3-diisopropylbenzene, and 1,4-diisopropylbenzene mixed together) could be called either "diisopropylbenzenes" or just "diisopropylbenzene" since there is no isomer that is called "diisopropylbenzene" as a common name. Example of a source that calls a mixture of isomers just "diisopropylbenzene": [1] Also xylene paint thinner in hardware stores, which is a mixture of o-xylene, p-xylene, and m-xylene is called both "xylene" and "xylenes". Michael7604 (talk) 18:48, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support as proposed. One article for all isomers of diisopropylbenzene? Seems reasonable. Any chemical with additional substituent on the ring would not be mentioned of this quasi disambiguation page.--Smokefoot (talk) 19:55, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support per WP:SINGULAR. I'm not seeing a compelling reason to not follow our usual convention of rendering article titles in the singular. Rreagan007 (talk) 03:18, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.