Talk:Thompson Island (Massachusetts)

Thompsons Islands' outwardbound program was created in 1982 with a class of students from all walks of life in Boston. Students was gathered from all parts of suburban Boston. I was one of those students who went there from 1982-1984.

Island name

The USGS standard for renaming geological features does not allow for naming a feature after a living person. The USGS listed name for this island is Thompson Island. Allwaysareup (talk) 13:49, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

See https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-can-i-propose-a-name-change-a-natural-feature Allwaysareup (talk) 13:57, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 26 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus that the "Cathleen Stone Island" name has not been widely adopted at this time, so WP:NAMECHANGES would advise us to remain at "Thompson Island". Participants were similarly in agreement that this island is not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "Thompson Island", leading to a consensus to use the disambiguated title "Thompson Island (Massachusetts)". (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:28, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

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Cathleen Stone Island → Thompson Island (Massachusetts) – Per USGS https://edits.nationalmap.gov/apps/gaz-domestic/public/gaz-record/613016 this place is named Thompson Island, Per https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-can-i-propose-a-name-change-a-natural-feature Places cannot be named after living people Allwaysareup (talk) 16:59, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose—I'd have no problem renaming this article if/when the USGS declares the name change null and void per the stipulation cited by Allwaysareup. As it stands right now, the local name—and therefore, the current common name—is "Cathleen Stone Island". There are occasional instances in which we will opt to use a location's official name over its common name, but as far as I'm aware, there's no requirement imposed on Wikimedia websites where we have to abide by USGS naming conventions before they've even declared a name change inadmissible, so I don't think an exception is needed in this case. However, if we do wind up changing its name, I think "Thompson Island (Massachusetts)" would be the ideal destination (and was the article's original page name, prior to the island itself being renamed). There are multiple places named "Thompson Island", and I don't see the one off the coast of Boston as being sufficiently famous relative to all of the others for us to add a parenthesized "disambiguation" to the current page's title. Kurtis ^(talk) 18:25, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

  I asked USGS about this last week and heard:

  " Allwaysareup (talk) 01:22, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

  To date, no name change request has been submitted to the BGN.

  We were contacted several weeks ago by a Massachusetts congressperson’s office informing us of the local renaming effort. Our Congressional Liaison Office informed them that the U.S. Board on Geographic Names (BGN) policy on commemorative naming does not allow names for living persons. It was agreed that the name could be recorded in the BGN's geographic names database as a variant, i.e., any name in local or published use other than the one official name. As such, the island's official name remains Thompson Island for Federal use. Allwaysareup (talk) 01:22, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

• If executed as proposed, the move would obliterate the current disambiguation page at Thompson Island. I'm with Kurtis (talk · contribs) on this; if moved, it should be to Thompson Island (Massachusetts) or Thompson Island (Boston Harbor). Otherwise I don't have a strong opinion on the article's title. The website of the Boston Harbor Islands National & State Park consistently refers to the island as Cathleen Stone Island. To me, this is a strong enough evidence of local use of the name Cathleen Stone Island that I've restored references to that name to the article. --Alison (Crazytales) (talk; edits) 19:48, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

  @Crazytales: It's funny—I initially suggested moving the article to "Thompson Island (Boston Harbor)", but then changed it to "Thompson Island (Massachusetts)" per my read of the MOS guidelines and the fact that it was the original name of the article. Kurtis ^(talk) 20:22, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: there was an undiscussed move of 17:03, 2 July 2024 (UTC) from the longstanding stable title Thompson Island (Massachusetts). The primary source cited for "Cathleen Stone Island" seems to be a press release by the organization that owns the island rather than an independent reliable source. I suspect bostonharborislands.org is not independent. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 22:16, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

  you are correct, Cathleen Stone Outward Bound is a member organization to bostonharborislands.org

  https://www.bostonharborislands.org/about-the-partnership/ Allwaysareup (talk) 01:07, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

• I was able to find an independent source. The Bay State Banner covered the name change: https://www.baystatebanner.com/2024/01/10/thompson-island-to-receive-12-million-gift-from-stone-foundation/ --Alison (Crazytales) (talk; edits) 21:39, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
• also, the Boston Globe says "picnic on Cathleen Stone Island (formerly known as Thompson Island)" https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tripideas/22-things-to-do-in-boston-for-visitors-and-residents-looking-to-rediscover-a-classic/ar-BB1pNwLz --Alison (Crazytales) (talk; edits) 21:44, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
• https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/as-new-president-of-the-ad-club-barb-reilly-aims-to-balance-old-and-new/ar-AA1mjXGe The CEO admits that changing the name will require fed approval --Alison (Crazytales) (talk; edits) 21:47, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Like opening the window and shouting "I declare bankruptcy!" is not actually filing for bankruptcy, a press release announcing a name change intention is not in fact a name change. One needs to actually file a name change request to the U.S. Board on Geographic Names in order to change the name of a geographic feature. The owners of the island have not issued such a request, and such a request is unlikely to be granted if filed. As navigational charts, maps, and other reference materials are likely to follow the USGS listing. My reading of https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names) says that we should stick with the federal name for this feature.

If the island's owners manage to get the new name used outside venues they control one might consider the proposed name to be entering the definition of colloquial usage. "Cathleen Stone Island" is not yet in colloquial usage, and per the guideline if that happens "we should prefer actual American usage to the official name". A recent example of the current colloquial usage use, refers to the place as Thompson Island in a discussion of accessing the feature, see: https://www.reddit.com/r/QuincyMa/comments/1eiinqa/crossing_thompson_island/

I see a consensus that "Thompson Island (Massachusetts)" is an improvement over the suggested name change "Thompson Island". Allwaysareup (talk) 15:13, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. Move back to Thompson Island (Massachusetts), as discussed above. Additionally, this would be a revert of a recent undiscussed move, so it should be performed by default. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:53, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

I went ahead and changed the template parameters to reflect this revised proposal. --Alison (Crazytales) (talk; edits) 21:55, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose moving DAB, no problem with moving to Thompson Island (Massachusetts). This one has 880 views but the South Atlantic one has 506, the Nunavut one has 22 and the Antarctica one has 14. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:33, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
• Support as revised, I see now that I kind of jumped the gun last month. --Alison (Crazytales) (talk; edits) 21:57, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.