Talk:Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer

Plagerism

The following text was removed from the section "Professional dog breeding". It is blatantly plagiarized directly from Morbidly Hollywood, which is a copyright and wikipedia policy violation. I suggest somebody reword at least some of this information since the following paragraph about Stiltz now makes no sense at all. Fife Club 19:45, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Between acting jobs, Switzer worked as a bartender, and although the pursuit never really worked out, he masterminded a part-time bear hunting scheme. His customers included, among others, Roy Rogers and Henry Fonda. Before one of his hunting expeditions, Switzer borrowed a hunting dog from a friend, Moses "Bud" Stiltz. The dog ran away, and Switzer offered a $50 reward for its return. A few days later, a man found the dog, and brought it to the bar where Switzer worked as a bartender. Switzer paid the man, along with giving him $15 worth of free drinks. Several days later, after a night of drinking, Switzer drunkenly decided that Stiltz owed him the $50 he had spent to get the dog back. So he went to Stiltz' home in Mission Hills to retrieve the money.

It's blatant editorializing inappropriate to an encyclopedia for this article to pronounce a ruling on the justifiability of Switzer's homicide as either "erroneous" or "correct". Furthermore, the article's own reporting makes it abundantly clear that Switzer's killer would have been justified even if Switzer had had no weapon at all. If an assailant is illegally assaulting you with their fists, and bashes your head with a lamp, and confines you to a closet, the measures you are entitled to take to stop them include shooting them, and are not limited to forms of force comparable to those available to the assailant. In other words if a boxer attacks you illegally, you are not legally constrained to fight back futilely using only your fists while he beats your brains out because he's a boxer and you're not, and it's not true that using a gun while he has only fists would be "unfair" while for him to cripple you would be "fair" because you have fists too. Wrong. You are entitled to use a gun, if you have one, against fists. Switzer was, according to this very article, charging at Stiltz to inflict more abuse when Stiltz fired.64.131.188.104 (talk) 10:09, 10 January 2008 (UTC)Christopher Lawrence Simpson

PERHAPS

"perhaps most notable for appearing ... as Alfalfa." PERHAPS??!! You think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.67.236.132 (talk) 21:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Ridiculous Use of Interlinks

Seriously, are we going to link to the article for "Kick" and "Gun" ..? Why not every definable noun? I'll let someone with a username and better sense of wikijudgment do it.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.78.113.151 (talk) 08:01, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

The Ten Commandments

Carl Switzer played a bit part as a slave in The Ten Commandments (1956), but that is not mentioned in the Wiki entry. He appeared near the beginning of the Exodus. Although uncredited in the film, he is acknowledged in IMDB.giggle 11:52, 8 June 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gregory.george.lewis (talk • contribs)

Fixed. Entry updated.giggle 12:13, 8 June 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gregory.george.lewis (talk • contribs)

Been There

i've been to Carl's grave site...buried there w/ his brother and father... His father has this odd little machine-like doctor equipment etching on his gravestone. Does anyone know or lend some words re: the "Switzer Method"?? ahhh wait... did a little internet search, found this.. from genforum.genealogy.com/switzer/messages/742.html . '...was the head of a beauty aid manufacturing company.' and 'The occupation was listed as "physical culture for 4 years with the Allure Studio in manufacturing."' And this site... www.flickr.com/photos/tom-margie/8220282904/ which states: '...and inventor of the Switzer Method which was a breast enlargement system.' okkkk 76.218.248.127 (talk) 18:29, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070820092121/http://www.crimelibrary.com:80/notorious_murders/celebrity/carl_switzer/ to http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/celebrity/carl_switzer/

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Born on 8th August 1927, not 7th

The birth certificate records 8 August 1927, 1 am, for his birth. His tomb stone is supposed to say 7 August, but this is apparently false. See BC original Aloist (talk) 17:39, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 12 October 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 23:39, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

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Carl Switzer → Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer – Per WP:COMMONNAME. Although, in a handful of credits, he was billed as "Carl Switzer", his most common stage name was Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer. While the use of quote "nickname" unquote in Wikipedia's main title headers is usually discouraged, the insertion of the nickname in this case is not unnecessarily precise, as exemplified by William "Bill" Clinton, but rather analogous to stage name forms such as Eddie "Rochester" Anderson, George "Gabby" Hayes or Charles "Buddy" Rogers. He was not known to the public as "Carl Switzer", but as "Alfalfa", and his gravestone, as depicted in the article, is inscribed Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer. — Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 07:59, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. That's just not how we title articles. The current title is fine. The others should probably be retitled. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:05, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
• Comment. Perhaps a bit of additional detail may provide greater insight into the background of this nomination. Specialized stage names, such as Eddie "Rochester" Anderson, George "Gabby" Hayes, Charles "Buddy" Rogers or Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer, are the actual WP:COMMONNAMES by which these performers have been known to the public.

They received on-screen billing under those stage names, including the quotation marks around the nickname, and would be virtually unrecognizable if simply referenced by non-distinctive appellations such as Eddie Anderson, George Hayes or Charles Rogers. These specialized "stage nicknames", which did not derive their forms from the actors' actual names, should not be conflated with redundant and obvious nicknames such as Charles "Charlie" Brown, James "Jimmy" Carter or William "Bill" Clinton.

In subject's case, the main title header of his entry at Find a Grave is Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer, which is also the form upon his gravestone, as well as at such key references as Internet Movie Database (IMDb), Turner Classic Movies (TCM), TV Guide and the authoritative American Film Institute (AFI) Catalog. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:47, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

However, Rogers and Hayes are often referred to simply as Buddy Rogers and Gabby Hayes, which is probably what our articles should be titled. According to IMDb, Switzer seems to have been credited as an adult mostly as Carl Switzer or as Alfalfa Switzer. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:28, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

At a point in time, those articles were indeed titled "Buddy Rogers" and "Gabby Hayes" (Talk:Charles "Buddy" Rogers#Requested move 21 October 2015 and Talk:George "Gabby" Hayes#Change of article title). However, since those performers' respective on-screen billing as well as listing in film guides and references did include the nickname in quotes, their articles' main title headers ultimately retained the full names.

Although, after his "Alfalfa" career was over, Switzer attempted to distance himself from the character by using the birth name/stage name "Carl Switzer", his WP:COMMONNAME in film history remains predominantly, if not entirely, referenced as "Alfalfa" or, in encyclopedic terms, Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer, per his gravestone, AFI Catalog, IMDb, TV Guide, etc. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 15:11, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

• Support per persuasive nom. Yes, that is how we (sometimes) title our articles per WP:NICKNAME: Avoid adding a nickname, or a contracted version of the original given name(s), in quotes, or parentheses, between first and last name (for example: Bill Clinton, not William "Bill" Clinton), unless it is the form most frequently used in independent reliable sources (see § Middle names and initials). No such user (talk) 11:45, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
• Support for consistency with similarly situated actors. bd2412 T 22:32, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Mason status

If Switzer was a Mason, shouldn't there be some mention of the degree he achieved and when? Usually the degree is depicted in a published obituary, so it shouldn't be too hard to find. 2601:141:8100:5C70:B0B2:CD57:DCC3:4AF9 (talk) 16:28, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Wrong Rita Corrigan

Neither Crash nor Stiltz were married to the baseball player. 82.82.216.32 (talk) 21:39, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Harold Switzer and Carl Switzer.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:38, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

This entry shows BOTH of the two different dates of birth.

But similarly, the birth certificate says August 8, while his gravestone says August 7. I suggest acknowledging the discrepancy. 2600:1700:BF40:4F30:19CC:CFF1:4D99:A566 (talk) 22:50, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Move

I moved this before realising that there had been a move discussion in the past. Looking at this and our standard naming rules, I think I made the right call, but if people think I'm wrong they are free to move this back of course and I'll start a WP:RM instead. Fram (talk) 14:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I returned the main title header to the form it has used since Talk:Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer#Requested move 12 October 2019. If there is contention that, in the intervening years, consensus may have undergone a change, then the header should be submitted to users for another vote. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:08, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 12 December 2024

Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer → Carl Switzer – Carl Switzer follows the standard naming convention and is unambiguous. Furthermore, it is the more WP:COMMONNAME[1] and (not a policy reason but still) it feels insulting to reduce a person to one role, even if it is by far their most famous one. We wouldn't move Mark Hamill to Mark "Luke Skywalker" Hammill. Fram (talk) 08:12, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Note: while the Ngram above has some "false positives" for Carl Switzer (i.e. different people with the same name), the vast majority (by my count over 90%) are about the actor, meaning that the conclusion of the Ngram stays the same. Fram (talk) 08:20, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

For the readers, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference, they find the page either way[2]. Fram (talk) 08:26, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Most of the arguments are already presented at Talk:Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer#Requested move 12 October 2019 but, basically, the child performers of Our Gang cannot be compared to other actors since, for most of them, it was their sole acting role.

Only two — Jackie Cooper and Robert Blake (actor) — went on to have substantial acting careers, while the small number of others, such as Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer, who did attempt to continue performing, were indelibly associated with their Our Gang characters.

Entertainment industry databases list them with their Our Gang character names in parentheses and George "Spanky" McFarland's star on Hollywood Walk of Fame depicts his name as "Spanky McFarland".

As for "Alfalfa", the main title header of his entry at Find a Grave is Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer, which is also the form upon his gravestone, as well as at such key references as Internet Movie Database (IMDb), Turner Classic Movies (TCM), TV Guide and the authoritative American Film Institute (AFI) Catalog.

Also, his on-screen billing — Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer — can be seen, for example, in the opening credits of the post-Our Gang feature film The Gas House Kids "in Hollywood". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 16:20, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per Roman Spinner, who covers all the bases. Randy Kryn (talk) 16:36, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
• Find a Grave isn't even a reliable source, and I don't get why the affectionate name perhaps used by his family dictates anything here. IMDb isn't a reliable source either. It's easy to find sources using Alfalfa, and it's just as easy to find sources without this, that's why I used Ngrams, using the more common use in books in the most recent decades, to indicate that anecdotical evidence doesn't equate WP:COMMONNAME. I have no interest in the other Our Gang members either, they aren't relevant for this discussion either way. Fram (talk) 16:41, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Since main title headers of Wikipedia articles depict actors' stage names, it is completely appropriate that the header of this article is Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer since that was this actor's stage name as seen in on-screen film credits and film references, such as AllMovie. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 17:56, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Ngrams show a preference for "Alfalfa". Theparties (talk) 10:18, 13 December 2024 (UTC)