Talk:Alice Coltrane

Early Discussion

Mel, thank you very much for starting this page. It's an important one. --Drasil 06:56, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My pleasure; I hope that other people can add more material. I'll do so too, when i get time. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 08:56, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Name

In the early 1970s, after years of involvement with Eastern religion, Coltrane took the name Swami Turyasangitananda.

This being the case, shouldn't 1) the page's name, 2) the picture caption and 3) the in-text reference reflect it?

Of course, there's the possibility that Alice Coltrane is maintained as her name as an artist and performer, in which case, fine my be - but even then, shouldn't there be an indication in the intro, of what her real name is (similar to the way that people known for their monickers rather than real names have an indication of their real name following their monicker in bold)?

Am I missing something? Zeppocity 17:39, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

That seems dubious to me. I never heard that. Maybe it's an honorific or something. See here, for instance, which says nothing about that name. Every Google hit for that name is a Wikipedia derivative. —Chowbok 20:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Isn't it Swamini Turiyasangitananda? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.25.48.196 (talk • contribs) 05:28, July 16, 2006 (UTC)

Aha! Yes, you are right. That brings up a lot of confirmations. I will change the article to reflect that. —Chowbok 14:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be at least a reference to her name Swamini Turiyasangitananda somewhere in the article? It barely makes mention of it all! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.68.166.83 (talk) 10:17, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Date of death

This source (http://www.startribune.com/466/story/935461.html) says Alice died on Friday...that would be the 12th, not the 13th. 213.39.213.220 06:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)nomennescio

Secondary discography

This is an odd list, not normally found in articles (which usually include only recordings as leader). Unless someone has a reason for this article being different, I'll remove it. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, I'll remove it. It's likely to be huge if complete, and arbitrary if not. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 11:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry didint see your note or I would have responded sooner. Jazz is a collective enterprise, and the appearance as a sideman/woman is in many cases as significant and important a piece of an artist's biography as their work as a "leader." I'm giong to restore the info, as its important and in many instances hard to locate. Many important musicians contributed some of their most significant work in ensembles under someone else's leadership. BabyDweezil 20:20, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

True in many cases — but should we include all of a musican's work as sideman (which is generally way beyond the scope of an encyclopædia article) or select the ones that we feel are important (which is likely to be controversial and subjective)? Besides, in Coltrane's case, it's not at all clear to me that her sideman work is terribly central to her significance. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 23:14, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

It shows her growth as an artist and the breadth of her work, just as we would for artists in other fields where your work isnt subsumed under the leadership of someone else. Also, Alice's list is a relatively short list and each work is distinctive; some jazz musicians have appeared on hundreds of recording as an ensemble member, in which case we would have to be a bit selective. BabyDweezil 23:31, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how a list of recordings shows that; how? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 23:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

It provides a reader a guide to explore the development of her work, although maybe we could just link to an online discography instead? BabyDweezil 16:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah, yes — could we compromise on that? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:22, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Done, alhtough with all the bloated puff pieces on WK about insignificant figures, I do hope this entry on such a great artist can get beefed up! Cheers. BabyDweezil 18:30, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, as the person who started the article (and those on the albums), I can't disagree too strongly, though I must admit I don't think of her as a great artist (not in the top 100, say) — often a very good one, though. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:46, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to see included in the list of her colaborations, the arrangements to the Santana's peak quality work "Welcome".--el_cambembo, 20:34, 15April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.5.163.109 (talk)

SSB template

Hi there, I noticed that the {{Sathya Sai Baba}} template was removed. May I ask why? Is it inappropriate considering that Coltrane was a follower? Regards, Ekantik ^talk 16:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I have reinstated the template. She was one of his most famous American followers, and that is worth noting... (Ptah, the El Daoud 18:31, 29 March 2007 (UTC))

Mel

First, the infobox is based on the template used on various jazz artists ranging from John Coltrane to Eric Dolphy, and the info within this box comes from either this article or the pre-existing wiki articles regarding her various solo LPs. If you don't like it, that's a shame, but there is no legitimate reason to delete it. Second, her husband was John Coltrane (check her official website), and the work she did with him propelled her to international fame... There is no reason to cut a reference about her marriage out of the introduction. Third, dates are frequently hyperlinked in wiki articles the first time they are mentioned. I don't see any reason for their deletion. Fourth, the LP hyperlinks were inserted to allow myself to follow up on her discography when I have more time (I intended to do one now, but unfortunately I have to spend this time reinstating my edits). Fifth, I inserted a reference to the fact that she rarely performed publicly in her later years (primarily the eighties and nineties), but, as I do not have an adequate citation off the top of my head, I have now added a "citation needed" template. Sixth, The "See Also" links refer to three subjects: her personal philosophy, which has already been established in the article; jazz itself; and, lastly, the prominent artists that she worked with. If you do not believe that these musicians made significant contributions to her music, you can check: the wiki links to her LPs, most of which cite the musicians who worked on the LP in question; [www.allmusic.com Allmusic.com], which caries the complete credits for nearly all of her LPs; and, lastly, your own jazz collection. Finally, if you do not believe that the the Sri Satya Sai Baba template belongs on this site, you should check out the late artist's official homepage.

If you think minor alterations in style, structure or grammar should be made, by all means go for it. If you would like a citation, either ask here or include the citation needed template after the sentence in question. Please avoid making a major revert when it is apparent that much of the information being reverted has already been stated or implied within the article in question. Thank you.--(Ptah, the El Daoud 23:43, 29 March 2007 (UTC))

First, many (including me) would say that defining her in the leasd in terms of her relationships with various me is to show disrespect to her as a person.

Secondly, in line with the MoS on links, years shouldn't be linked unless information on them has some significance to the article. It used to be habit to link years, and so Wikipedia is fill of them; new editors often see that, and follow it, but it's not in line woith the MoS.

Thirdly, red links aren't forbidden, but it's better practice to add a link when you're creating an article to link to.

Fourthly, we don't provide "see also" links for everyone with whom a musician played — nor, usually, for even the more important, because they should already be in the article.

Fifthly, the addition of the Satya Sai Baba template is unnecessary, and has been pushed by devotees, hence my removal of it. It's an attempt to raise the profile of the group, not to provide genuine information.

Sixthly, your edits would perhaps have attracted more respect if they'd been explained.

Seventhly, incidentlally, it would have been pleasanter to have written as though I wasn't in need of elementary education about her; I did, after all, start and write most of the article, as well as the articles on her albums. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 10:14, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Impact section

Nice job with this article--it's pretty great. Maybe we could make it better by improving the Impact section, though--it's just a list of a few random references to her outside of jazz, without any evaluation of her impact. If anyone wants to describe her critical reception, influence on younger players, or something like that we could really improve things.Tdimhcs (talk) 06:28, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Neutral point of view dispute

This sentence in the first paragraph is not neutral, nor is it supported by the citation (which is merely a link to a discography): "Her essential recordings were made in the late 1960s and early 1970s for Impulse! Records." Specifically, I take issue with the use of the word "essential." Of course, without this word, there is no need or purpose for this sentence in the article at all. I propose that this sentence be removed altogether. Pjdjr (talk) 02:25, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

No one has objected, so I will remove (or otherwise edit) the aforementioned non-neutral sentence in a few days. Pjdjr (talk) 20:39, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

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Wiki Education assignment: Asian Religions in America

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 September 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dogwalker25 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Thewulk (talk) 17:07, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Please add her harp teacher Velma Froude

French wiki speaks of her harp teacher being Velma Froude, English doesn't yet https://fr.wiki.x.io/wiki/Alice_Coltrane#Jeunesse_et_formation ; it's the same person as Dorothy Ashby so it's relevant https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Dorothy_Ashby#Early_life_and_education 81.11.255.218 (talk) 10:35, 10 April 2023 (UTC)