Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scottish Islands/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

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Archive 4

Archive 5

Collaboration of the Month

These don't always seem to work too well, but I think its worth a try. My suggestion, to keep admin as simple as possible, is that we simply go round in alphabetical order with someone choosing an article, and perhaps indicating a hoped for outcome. This would last for the calendar month, then on to the next. If there is anyone with a burning idea, please fire away. If not, I'll suggest something and we'll see how it goes. Ben MacDui (Talk) 18:15, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

My suggestion for November is Ulva, as this is a short article of a place with a reasonably interesting history. It also fits in with the rotation I suggested in another thread, since the current one is Shapinsay, and it makes a change from another Orkney topic. --MacRusgail 15:21, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I was planning to vote for Linga (disambiguation) but I must have missed the division bell. For future reference I wonder if we could agree a nominations open/close date? Ben MacDui (Talk) 18:09, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I think there's only so much that can be done to Linga (disambiguation), really, identify co-ordinates, this kind of stuff. Very important and useful, but I suppose limited - God knows I took a bit of time sorting it out! I've suggested below that we should maybe rotate the various island groups... that way, Shetland's next look-in should be December. Ulva's got a lot of stuff which can go in... how did I choose it? Closed my eyes and put my finger on the map. Seems to work though. --MacRusgail 19:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC) p.s. Looking at the Shetland articles, Jarlshof is one of the weaker ones, but since we did Skara Brae recently, some variety is probably needed.

Great work on Ulva, which with a little tweaking will be GA (or better). It's that time of the month again. I was of course joking about Linga (disambig), but if we want a challenge maybe North Ronaldsay sheep or one of the obscure Scandinavians - or perhaps somewhere in the Firth of Clyde for a change? BM —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ben MacDui (talk • contribs) 09:19, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Ulva is still weak in a couple of areas, but I will get round to sorting them out. It does show what can be done with reasonably small articles. I would go for somewhere in the Clyde (which hasn't been done yet), and then somewhere in Shetland. Probably back to the "Utter Hebrides" after that. I won't be round as much in December. Tis the season to be stressed and shopping after all!

I think articles such as the sheep can be done - hopefully if we can rope in people from "livestock" wikiproject or whatever it calls itself. However there are several major islands which have very weak articles. The two Mainlands, Yell, North Ronaldsay, Mull, Harris - and if I mind rightly, Islay and Jura. These are all big major islands, so should be a priority IMHO. --MacRusgail 14:21, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

We could try Arran, although I don't have much material in hard copy myself. An alternative would be Islands of the Firth of Clyde. I've actually got a partially completed re-draft in a spare cupboard. It needs a fair bit of work on history and maybe tracking down odd islets and rocks. Might be an easy one for a busy month. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 19:55, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd go for Islands of the Firth of Clyde. Since it's december, we don't want to be having to track down in-depth info on an island. Lurker (said · done) 15:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Well we could cheat and combine Dec and Jan here. It would suit me anyway. --MacRusgail 16:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

My suggestion for February is Yell, a brief article. #15 in population (#3 in Shetland), #11 by area (#2 in Shetland). This keeps the location of the collaborations circulating, and also helps deal with one of the bigger islands. --MacRusgail (talk) 20:58, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

No response, but I will put this up as next month's collab. --MacRusgail (talk) 13:54, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Skye is in need of serious clean-up and my suggestion for March. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 13:14, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd go with that BM - anyone else got any suggestions? --MacRusgail (talk) 14:42, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I just found your invite to this MacRusgail (sorry, I haven't used my Wikipedia account for ages!) and had a few free hours, so have just done a proper article for Castlebay. Barra and Vatersay are the only things I really know about on here, so it's probably the only article that I could have helped with. I hope it's good enough- I haven't done anything like that before! - -Mikleran 00:09 02 March 2008

Assessment

'Quality' has some fairly standard definitions and hopefully won't be a problem.

'Importance' - I think we need to bear in mind that we are a project within a project, and from the Wikipedia 1.0 assessment point of view, there may not be many genuinely 'Top' Importance Scottish island articles. Something like this might work:

Top - Say the 20 largest Islands up to and including Barra, plus smaller islands of import e.g. Iona, St Kilda

High - Islands larger than 2,000 ha and/or with a population greater than 150 plus smaller islands of interest to a non-Scottish audience e.g. Gigha

Mid - All other islands larger than 40 ha, and/or with a resident population plus other genuinely notable islands e.g. Dubh Artach

Low - All other islands, including those about which it might prove difficult to write an article of GA quality without access to specialist libraries.

No doubt we all have our favourites. Ben MacDui (Talk) 11:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Portree

I had a quick go at this, which was in a dreadful state with fact and tone tags all over it. It occurs to me that for consistency, infoboxes for villages on the islands could have the island infobox Saltire/lymphad logos. See Portree for example. The infobox itself is a bit of a guddle and desparately needs better maps but its the best we have at present. Ben MacDui (Talk) 16:40, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

New 'Discoveries'

Inch and Tullibody Inch, collectively perhaps known as Alloa Inches, are tidal islands at NS 869 917. Mercifully the former and larger is only circa 33 ha. It looks a bit iffy on a map, but aerial photos are quite unequivocal. For photo see [5] Ben MacDui (Talk) 19:56, 19 September 2007 (UTC) I now notice they appear on the list of freshwater islands. However, they are also tidal. It's an anomaly, and hopefully there are not too many examples. It might be easiest to treat them as freshwater as their location fits into this category more easily. However there may be any number of tidal islands that have a small freshwater stream passing round them at low tide. Ben MacDui (Talk) 08:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Aye, mentioned these before. They appear to be low lying and flat, and probably frequently flooded. However, I suspect they fall into the brackish zone. The Forth used to be tidal up to Stirling, and it certain can be up to Alloa, I reckon. I'm thinking of including them in the Islands of the Forth template, in a wee subdivision. --MacRusgail 19:07, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes - my apologies. I missed the first entry for some reason and only spotted it when I archived the pages. It's not a major issues, but they should either be on the fresh or salty main lists, but not both. Ben MacDui (Talk) 16:52, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Yet another "Garbh Eilean" here. I should think it would be a bit "rougher" after NATO has pummelled it. --MacRusgail 23:40, 15 November 2007 (UTC) p.s. Other "discoveries" Riska Island, Coomb Island ("Eilean na Coomb" is not proper Gàidhlig) & here, Tarner Island, Keava, Illeray

Lewis Relocation Proposal

I am putting a proposal in the talk page of Lewis that Lewis be moved to "Isle of Lewis" and the disambig page moved to Lewis (or just no article at "Lewis"). This is because of an endless stream of people vandalising the "isle of lewis" article with messages for friends called "Lewis". If you are interested, please comment on the Lewis talk page.MRM 11:38, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Someone seems to have unilaterally moved Lewis to a rather non-useful destination of Lewis (Isle). I don't want to fiddle with undo as I'm not sure how deep such a thing goes to change it back.MRM (talk) 10:39, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I moved it back. Lurker (said · done) 15:52, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Gutter sound merger

No, I hadn't heard of it either. But there is a proposal to merge Gutter Sound and Scapa Flow Lurker (said · done) 13:54, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

The discussion (at another red-linked project) seemed to result in no merger according to the talk page, but the banner was still there. I've removed it. Ben MacDui (Talk) 09:04, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

John Sands

Sands was a 19th century visitor to several of our more remote islands including St Kilda and Papa Stour. He is variously described as a journalist who worked for Punch magazine, a poet and an MP. He may have come from Ormiston. I have gleaned some basic info about him from my collection of island literature, but I can't find any corroborating evidence he was ever an MP. He was apparently one in 1875. If anyone has/can find any other details please let me know as I'd like to create a short biography article about him. Ben MacDui (Talk)

The article History of St Kilda mentions him in a reference, but doesn't say what the reference is (the refs in the article seem to be broken) Lurker (said · done) 09:45, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

This forum post says he was MP for Ormiston, but gives few details. Lurker (said · done) 09:51, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, Wikipedia seems to list everyone who was ever MP in its articles on historic parliament constiuencies, and a search shows up no John Sands, except in St Kilda articles. Unless there are gaps in Wikipedia's lists of MPs, there was never a John Sands, MP Lurker (said · done) 10:53, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

The forum post is very helpful. I had checked the Wikipedia list, which is why I was suspicious. I can't even find a clear reference that Ormiston existed as a constituency. However I now have three references including the above which all state he was an MP. I have a rough draft here. Comments welcome. Ben MacDui (Talk) 12:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

AFAICT, in the 1800s Ormiston (assuming it refers to the village in East Lothian), was part of Berwickshire (UK Parliament constituency). It has a list of the MPs that held the seat - John Sands isn't included. It could be worth asking on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Parliament constituencies - there's a few people there who could probably find out whether John Sands was ever an MP or not. Though I'm not sure if that forum post is a particularly reliable source to be used as a reference.--Vclaw 14:10, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Mystery apparently solved - see the 'Later Career' section of the article. Ben MacDui (Talk) 17:19, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

GA and/or FA Candidates

What do people think about working together to improve and promote some of these articles? Either as Ben's collaboration of the month, or to just pick one and see how far we can get it, but not necessarily on a monthly basis? I haven't been through the whole list, but I did a bit of work on Skye and think it's a possible candidate. I'd say we need to do something about the red links - either start articles for them or cut them (preferably the former, even if only stubs, imho). Thoughts? - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 17:34, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Oops. Looks we already have a current GA candidate in Papa Stour. Off we go, then! - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 18:23, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

No oops - it's an actual WP:GAC at present - although you are most welcome to improve it. I'm not a great article creator and have tended to do so only only when there are red links on shiny new lists like Orkney and Shetland. Fortunately there are others who go in for this. As far as improving articles to GA or better is concerned I'd say any inhabited island is a potential candidate and I'd be very happy to assist whether it's an identified collaboration or not. Feel free to put something up either there or here - your enthusiasm is most welcome. Ben MacDui (Talk) 18:34, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Assuming all goes well at Papa Stour I may have a look at Shapinsay - (Orkney does not have a GA at present). Any assistance is welcome. Ben MacDui (Talk) 08:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

News

Can I suggest that only the current month's news is visible on the main page (with the exception of the first few days, when the old month's still relevant)... we need an archive maybe. --MacRusgail 17:26, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Collaborators will (not) be shot at dawn

Can I suggest that we pinch the format from Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/Collaboration so that we can vote on potential candidates for collaboration?

My ongoing adaptation of it (with some tell tale refs to novels) is here - User:MacRusgail/Sandbox3. --MacRusgail 18:00, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I think it is a fine idea, and my sole concern is that it may be a little over-elaborate for our small numbers. However, if you are happy to maintain it, I'd say go for it. If for any reason it fails to nominate anything by say the 6th of the month I suggest we just fall back on the 'somebody picks something at random' routine. Well done with all the snaps of Shapinsay btw - the pokers are a real splash of colour. Ben MacDui (Talk) 19:08, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I think a rotation may be good, something like

• • Orkney
  • Inner Hebrides (+ Clyde)
  • Shetland
  • Outer Hebrides
  • Other (Forth, Sutherland, Freshwater, Seas, Bays etc).

There's a list of top priority stubs further up the page. Perhaps one of these can be picked. Heart of Neolithic Orkney is my pick, but since we've already done Shapinsay, perhaps something non-Orcadian should be the next one.

Thanks I picked up the pokers picture off geograph... just to prove to our readers that not all Scottish islands are barren moorland!!! --MacRusgail 10:27, 20 October 2007 (UTC) p.s. I am doing a bit of recruiting of people for the project, so hopefully we shall have greater numbers soon.

Faroese Wikiproject

Faroe Islands on NASA satellite image.

I have just recently found out about the Faroese wikiproject - Wikipedia:WikiProject Faroe Islands. This may be of interest to some people here, particularly in regard to Norse history etc. I think the Faroese pages (in English) are not as developed as they could be, but may be useful in providing inspiration for new WPSI articles. Here are some of the better ones -

Birds of the Faroe Islands, Transport in the Faroe Islands, History of the Faroe Islands. There's also the Portal:Faroe Islands. --MacRusgail 18:14, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

May I...

...propose that Flannan Isle be covered by this project? Totnesmartin 10:12, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Ah yes, Wilfrid Wilson Gibson - so much more cheerful than Coldplay. Of course we will take the poor dear in. We will translate it into the Gaelic and recite it to one another over a cheery fire at Christmas. (Is it too late to change my vote from Linga?) Ben MacDui (Talk) 19:21, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

what an excellent idea! Totnesmartin 19:47, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Navigation Templates proposal (human geography/places of interest)

Greetings and Many thanks to you all for the *excellent* Wikiproject!
MacRusgail gave me a pointer over here (& appreciate your help, too). Oh, and good spot Ben MacDui on that 'H'/'h' (oops!)

Anyhow... I appreciate that most of the work carried out has been "island based" and thus because of the drive of that project, that's reflected in the current navigation system.
As noted on WP:SCOT, I've flagged myself for navigation & infoboxes starting with Aberdeenshire and Highland, and have just set up a two-level navigation "settlements"/"places of interest" to help pull things together on the former (also appreciating that Wikipedia users passing-by might be as likely to be potential tourists as geographers). Please see the foot of Crimond or Dunnottar Castle for how I've set that up there.
As I'm trying to roll-out a similar "look and feel" on these navigation templates elsewhere in Scotland, I would appreciate your thoughts on the following. Having spent some time trying to see what approach might work best and as an initial implementation, I'd like to propose a single-level navigation system pulling together the settlements/(primary) places of interest, retaining primary/secondary settlements for the Orkney and Shetland Isles, but with a single-level tier of "notable" settlements on a geographic basis for Eilean Siar. This hopefully would be of use to Wikipedians, especially the more "casual" users who are browsing for content of interest to themselves in order to "hook" them in for more...

The templates are at: Template:Eilean Siar places, Template:Orkney Islands places and Template:Shetland Islands places.

Eilean Siar is perhaps almost "ready to go" and I'm more than happy to roll that out to all the relevant pages. Have deliberately linked to the Gaelic language redirects in order to give the native spelling more prominence on the Wiki pages routed to: that seemed like a reasonable compromise rather than making all entries bilingual where required (too clunky/too much space needed, especially with future additions?), whilst acknowledging that the majority of users are/will be English speakers.
I've populated the other two navigation templates with the "usual suspects" for "places of interest", but held back on the settlements in order to hear what thoughts might've been on splitting into primary/other on that basis or not. Had tried to add in the geography on paper, but that proved to be unwieldy owing to the number of islands involved in both cases. (The deciding factors are not as clear-cut over here; whereas for Aberdeenshire I was taking 500+ persons for "primary" with a few exceptions based on importance, it may be (even more) important to this project that an village article is well written and informative and/or relates to a location more significant than its current population would indicate - e.g. Valtos/Uig).
Anyhow; enough rambling for now! Please feel free to have a nudge at these templates if you wish and/or populate ready for use if those seem OK in outline. I'll implement these fully as/when required if that's OK to save on the "donkey work" whilst y'all write quality Scottish Island articles! ;)

Cheers & Best wishes, David. Harami2000 00:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

p.s.
Having given some more thought to Orkney & Shetland, I think I made the mistake of starting with Shetland and trying to work any extra navigation as an "extra" on top of the existing static two(-ish) level island-centric system, since I didn't wish to tinker with that save for lifting out the settlements, perhaps.
Stepping back and reconsidering what navigation information is actually needed for users (islands /or/ settlements /or/ places of interest), it would be possible to merge-in the existing navigation *and* include that extra information in a single box with additional "partial navigation" and geographic island "pointers" on the header, thus:
(outline examples only)
Template:Orkney Islands NW places, Template:Orkney Islands NE places, Template:Orkney Islands Mainland places, Template:Orkney Islands SW places and Template:Orkney Islands SE places

Your baby on the navigation just now, MacRusgail? :)
Still just 02cents for ongoing, of course. Would only me take a few hours to partially populate those five for the Orkney Islands as an example, if worthwhile giving that a shot? (Adding "area" maps for each of the five as opposed to that single "Orkney Islands within Scotland" thumbnail at the right would take a bit longer, of course).
Regards, David. Harami2000 05:48, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I was trying to devise a way of doing something like this... i.e. to have the main template, and then if someone wants to explore a certain area, for them to go into it. I'm not good with templates, but it's a means of getting the minor islands linked together too. Thanks and all the best... --MacRusgail 13:29, 9 November 2007 (UTC) p.s. just a wee correction "EileanAN Siar"/or "Na h-Eileanan Siar" (just puts it in the plural)

You've certainly done some good work on this - and welcome to the Project btw. I'd suggest avoiding the 'secondary places' myself as they are mostly pretty small. I also have a minor worry that the 'places of interest' section might attract spammers, but hopefully not. I'm not sure I follow the 'PS' section, but I think what is being suggested is an improvement of MacR's existing templates and that the general archipelago template is kept as a broader navigation device? Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 19:19, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Hiya again... I'd been leaving this aside deliberately and working elsewhere until the weekend to await any further feedback, rather than just imposing the format upon y'all. Thanks for the input: much appreciated.
Had been thinking/working through further enhancements to the templates during the week and was going to post that I'd be rolling out Eilean Siar first (as above) since that was clearly lacking, then proposing a reworked version for the Orkneys prior to considering how best to handle the Shetlands, with a smoother navigational flow-through in both cases.
However, I see that a new Lewis and Harris template has appeared in the last couple of days, without any advance notice or shout over to myself... So much for collaboration. :)
And with that, adieu, and best wishes for your wikiproject.
Cheers, David. Harami2000 (talk) 00:47, 17 November 2007 (UTC) 00:44, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
p.s.: I'd had a good trawl through the geostubs and carried out some additional categorisations and removal of vandalism as part of that exercise. Wasn't too bad, all told, but hopefully that helped a bit.

Bizarre. I suppose there's no pleasing everybody. I did inform you, on your talk page. Also, as I pointed out above it's EileanAN Siar. I know very little about these templates, I merely cut and paste them, but I'm sorry to see you've quit. And please, next time, can you sign in! There was an anonymous IP removing your name from the main page - I had to check if it was you, by comparing times etc. --MacRusgail (talk) 16:17, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Shapinsay Peer Review

I've nominated Shapinsay for peer review. Fell free to join in, especially if you haven't edited it- a fresh pair of eyes is always welcome. Hopefully, we can move it forward to FA status in the near future. Lurker (said · done) 16:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

WPSI SSSIs

Going through the lists of Sites of Special Scientific Interest, I found that many of them included various Scottish islands. It might be worth looking over these for future reference. As usual, the Gàidhlig names are without accents... some of the areas you might find surprising, as they include islands that we often forget - in fact, it's more of a case of finding out which ones don't apply. I have assessed the lists as stubs, but not graded them.

• Caithness (Stroma)
• Cumnock and Kyle (Islands of Clyde)
• Dumbarton and North Glasgow (Islands of Loch Lomond)
• Dunfermline and Kirkcaldy (Islands of Forth)
• Edinburgh and West Lothian (Islands of Forth)
• Islay and Jura
• Kincardine and Deeside (not tagged, but includes Craiglethy)
• Kintyre (various small islands)
• Lorne (various small islands)
• Mid and East Lothian (Islands of Forth)
• Mid Argyll and Cowal (various small islands)
• Mull, Coll and Tiree
• North East Fife (Islands of Forth)
• North West Sutherland (Eilean nan Ron etc)
• North Wester Ross and Cromarty (various small islands)
• Orkney
• Renfrew and Cunninghame (Islands of Clyde)
• Rum and the Small Isles
• Shetland
• Skye and Lochalsh
• South Wester Ross and Cromarty (various small islands)
• Stirling (Loch Lomond, Lake of Menteith)
• West Perth ("Shingle Islands" - whatever, and wherever these are)
• Western Isles North
• Western Isles South

Perhaps North Lochaber should be included - don't know. --MacRusgail 21:10, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

New map of the Outer Hebrides available

The new map

Plain map

Lewis as an example

This new map has been created by User:Andrewrpalmer and User:Jza84. It will appear in the infoboxes for places in the Outer Hebrides, and is (of course) available for use elsewhere. Warofdreams talk 20:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this is excellent. Thanks for the work, guys. I think that with many of the smaller islands, location maps within Scotland as whole, or worse still the UK, aren't much help, as they don't show clearly how they relate to neighbouring islands. For example, in the case of Ulva, a UK/Scotland map would probably cover Inchkenneth, Staffa and the Treshnish Isles, without showing how they relate to each other. --MacRusgail (talk) 16:20, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I've tidied up the map now, starting with the higher-res original I had. Fixed corruption round St Kilda, various outlying islands have reappeared. Andrewrpalmer (talk) 20:29, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

The maps for Lewis and Harris are extremely useful for explaining the set up. I was going to try and do some, but I was having trouble finding the boundary of north Harris... great work anyway.--MacRusgail (talk) 17:18, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

RfA

Our colleague Kathryn NicDhàna is on the current list and has shyly omitted to inform us. You can offer public criticism of her insouciant use of annoying Gaelic accents here. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 15:33, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Kathryn has now got the post. Dozens of votes for her, and only one oppose, so great going! Congratulations! --MacRusgail (talk) 15:15, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[blushes] Well, you know, I didn't want to be rude ;-) Moran taing a-rithist for your support. It means a lot to me. Now to mandate that every article on WP must include Gàidhlig... - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 23:09, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

News

Have I misunderstood the use of the News section of the main project page? I thought it was for reporting on progress of the project, rather than news stories more or less related to the islands and linked off Wiki. Even with the latter, the oil rig story is pretty peripheral - 100 miles off Shetland! I think it is fine to put a story there, once it has been added to a project page (Calmac story probably deserves to be on CalMac page). What do others think? Finavon 20:50, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Whilst I agree that oil rigs are stretching it a bit, I don't mind getting both wiki and media updates myself. Keeps us in the loop. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 22:31, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

The Lymphad- again

The MacDonald Lymphad image has been deleted from commons again. Anyone fancy having a go at making their own version of it (the actual shape of the image is presumably public domain as it is an old coat of arms)? Lurker (said · done) 12:13, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

As far as I am aware there is no reason for it to have been deleted again. I will ask Angus or the Deacon to re-load it when I get a moment. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 20:18, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I occasionally tag an image wrongly... maybe this is the problem here. If you use a different tag, the bot won't delete it. --MacRusgail (talk) 12:21, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Twasn't a bot - see [1]. I have a minor concern that this may become an issue for Shapinsay's FAC and so potentially delay a St Kilda FAC. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 12:42, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

If copyright is an issue, I'd better get my crayons and notepaper out... --MacRusgail (talk) 17:37, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I have uploaded a new file of a lymphad to Commons, which is a portion of a pre-existing file, and created an example of what it would look like at St Kilda. I have also left a note for the author of the original image, expressing the hope that they would not take issue with this. I think it would be courteous not to use it elsewhere until he has had a chance to respond. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 17:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Now uploaded onto the template. I have been assured it's fine. I'm expecting this to be confirmed by Commons Licensing. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 12:57, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Two new sections in list

I thought it would be nice to have a list of islands which are particularly connected with castles or religion. These islands are often small, but are well known for these reasons - or in the case of the former with films. It also allows a couple of nice pictures on the list. List_of_islands_of_Scotland#Castle_Islands

I would like to include a note on which films these castles are shown in. In the case of Eilean Donan, the list is pretty long! --MacRusgail (talk) 16:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I really like the Castle and Holy Islands sections, (although I am not convinced the 'named after people' one adds much). Good work. Scottish Islands in the media and arts sounds like a whole new list to me than an addition to the existing one! What's the 'land of Iona' comment about re Tiree? Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 19:43, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Some people think that the ultimate etymology of Tiree is Tir Idhe, "land of Iona", since it was fertile and provided food for the small island. There's certainly a good case for islands on film, can think of numerous examples, from the Wickerman, Flash Gordon (yes!), Bond films, Highlander, Whisky Galore etc... "The Edge of the World" is an interesting story in itself.--MacRusgail (talk) 20:27, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Another island!

Eilean Chaluim Chille has been hiding in the shrubbery in Loch Erisort. It may not have made it onto Haswell-Smith's list due to it being connected to the mainland at some hundred-year equinoctal spring tide or other. I fear it is circa 83 ha. Promotion to the main list beckons unless someone can find an 'offside' flag to raise. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 19:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I have not been keeping a precise track of late, but of those islands with infoboxes, this demotes Lunga, Treshnish Isles, Moncrieffe Island, Eileach an Naoimh, Horse Island and maybe others by one rank. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 19:24, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

There's also an Eilean Chaluim-chille in Loch Portree. Lurker (said · done) 19:35, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Yet another dab page looms.

This site says the Eilean Chaluim Chille in Loch Erisort is tidal. Lurker (said · done) 19:37, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

The church there must be amazing. According to your source it was built by ghosts: "There was probably a church there from about 800AD, built by the followers of St Columba, who died on Iona in 597AD." Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 19:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

It's connected to the 'mainland' on the 1993 Admiralty chart I have, even at high water Andrewrpalmer (talk) 21:04, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually it's shown as above on the 1:25000 Approaches to Stornoway chart, but only connected at other than high tide on the 1:100000 North Minch, Southern Part chart - I can see where the confusion comes from! Andrewrpalmer (talk) 21:08, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

It seems to be tidal according to this siteMRM (talk) 21:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

A good find - after MacDui's post, I was editing the page while this discussion happened! I don't consider that a causeway (shown on an image from geograph) stops it being an island. Finavon (talk) 22:15, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Neither do I, otherwise we'd be in trouble with many of the islands! Especially South Walls, Glims Holm and Benbecula.--MacRusgail (talk) 20:30, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Original Research taken too far?

Came across the BBC News article today: [2]

If nothing else the promised books would fit rather well as a modern source if anyone gets a hold of them Andrewrpalmer (talk) 15:00, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Have to say that this article bugs me slightly... "Naiomh" is not an island name. Presumably he's referring to Eileach an Naoimh or Eilean an Naoimh. Just hope this is the BBC's blunder, not theirs. Dow's book is good on supplying a short bit on the islands of Loch Lomond. I think that the Statistical Accounts may provide a good source too. --MacRusgail (talk) 20:23, 14 December 2007 (UTC) p.s. Neave Island, an upcoming article of mine, is between Eilean nan Ròn and the Rabbit Islands... the first element is corruption of "naoimh", meaning literally "of the saint".

I'm working on a saintly isle myself - one that is guaranteed to flummox Finavon when he comes armed with an infobox! Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 20:42, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Very good - no place for an infobox there! I would like to standardise the infobox on St Kilda, Scotland (see talk) without upsettng the FAC. Finavon (talk) 23:20, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Project members may be interested in this related snippet at User talk:Ben MacDui#Strangeway. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 08:35, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Christmas

I'm going to be (mostly) offline until early Jan, so if anyone wants to contact me, please do so then. All the best to everyone here, and merry Christmas & a happy new year to everyone. --MacRusgail (talk) 19:46, 18 December 2007 (UTC) p.s. Contrary to rumours, this WPSI member is not going to Christmas Island during the festive season. :)

Enjoy your beak - you deserve it. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 11:39, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm also going to be mostly offline for a bit. Merry Christmas to everyone, and a happy new year. Lurker (said · done) 16:40, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks folks... Happy 2008. I'm back now, and hope to be active soon. Will continue on my quest to provide major islands with some form of picture... --MacRusgail (talk) 20:46, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Metric vs Imperial

Note dicussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography#Metric vs Imperial. Ye olde islands of Scotia generally use metric (imperial), especially in the larger and GA/FAs and this dicusion is a complaint about an FAC using miles being given what for. Dicussion also at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Metrics in UK-related articles. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 11:39, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

IMHO, both should be used, as both are in widespread use. Some of us still think in miles rather than km, but are "bilingual", but there are many other Scots who can't even relate to km/ha at all. --MacRusgail (talk) 12:39, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Both should always be used - the question is, which should be first in what circumstances? Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 13:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Ideally, this would be userdefinable. However, although I far prefer the metric system (much more logical), I have to admit that in my experience, most Scots ditch metric on leaving school and use imperial (I am an exception) and would therefore suggest that as it appears to be the dominant system in use in the place, imperial should be first. Another reason would be all road signs are in miles, so it would make sense to give distances in miles.MRM (talk) 14:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I think metric should be first, because it is the international standard. I agree with Morris MacIver... but I think it's not just a case of "ditching it on leaving school", so much as getting taught one thing in school, and finding that everyone outside (including your parents) uses imperial for most things. You may run the hundred metres at school these days, but you're five/six feet tall and X stone when you're looking at yourself. I live in a kind of hybrid world. I can work with kilometres fine, but I can't visualise what the hell a hectare is!!! I talk about long distances in miles, speeds in mph, temperature in celsius, small distances in centimetres, and as I say, my height and weight are firmly imperial!

And lots of the older sources tend to use imperial, so imperial's useful for referencing. However, like I say, metric is important in the international sense. --MacRusgail (talk) 14:47, 6 January 2008 (UTC) p.s. Actually to hell with this. Let's go back to measuring islands in falls, daughs and ouncelands!

Fowl smelling

A possible 'See also' for a 'Stinky Bay (Benbecula)' article is Shagnasty Island in the Orkneys. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 15:32, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, when I created the Dyke Island article (which has the "Smylie Channel" next to it), someone thought it was a bad joke about lesbians - definitely not! --MacRusgail (talk) 14:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comments

A Happy New Year to all. I trust you are refreshed, have your 'Garbh Eilean (disambiguation)' calendars open above your workstations and are raring to improve Scottish island articles. A significant addition to our armoury - thanks to Warofdreams who fixed the template/category glitch - editors suggestions for improvements to articles can now be seen in the 'by quality' logs (e.g. Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Scottish Islands articles by quality/1. Now at last we can, at a glance, be dismayed at the surfeit of pencils in the Battle of Largs, perhaps improve Magnus VI of Norway to 'B' Class with a minimum of effort, and wonder at the overcast conditions in the Cuillin. This is, I believe a very useful improvement and I hope project members will take the time to view the comments, be inspired to take some action based on them, and add a few more. My sincere apologies to all those reviewers who previously took the trouble to add comments that were previously only visible on the Talk pages concerned. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 13:52, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

That mystery object

... according to the grape vine was a Coors brewing tower. --MacRusgail (talk) 12:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Haskeir

Haskeir now joins us. Sadly it has no image at present but - could those familiar with North Uist and environs have a look at this Geograph image of Griminish Point? The page description claims it is the Monachs in the background, but the islands look awfully like Haskeir and Haskeir Eagach to me. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 17:44, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I think they are. The names Heisgeir and Haskeir - not to mention Hyskeir are easily confused. --MacRusgail (talk) 20:43, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I will upload it with an appropriate caveat and take a pair of binoculars the next time I visit Eaval. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 21:15, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Pages of interest and a few Dab to dos

I have been spending a few dreich days looking at our dab pages and attempting to fix the pages per MOSDAB, and redirect inappropriate links to them. This has lead off at odd tangents to:

• Strangeway - interesting. It's either of Top importance or needs a serious overhaul. My initial impression is that it should probably make less grandiose claims and be moved to 'Andy Strangeway'.
• Islomania - of Top importance to project members, I would have thought.

Minor dab issues arising from dab trawl so far:

• Wedder Holm is currently a redirect to the dab page Wether Holm. There is (so far) only one Wedder Holm and if anyone is inspired to create the page it is in theory available.
• Similarly, Muckle Holm is a dab page, but there is only one red link identified plus Muckle Green Holm.
• I have not fixed the Orkney templates that are linking to dab pages via Orasaigh and Sanday.
• Hoy, Shetland was a double redirect and is now a new stub.

Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 16:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

The reason that Wedder Holm redirects to Wether Holm is that they are both variants of the same name. Shetlanders (don't know about Orcadians, frequently turn "th" into "d" e.g. du (thou) and da (the), so likely as not, Wether Holms are probably called Wedder Holm traditionally.--MacRusgail (talk) 18:14, 13 January 2008 (UTC) p.s. Couldn't a "Strangeway" be called a "Hasmith" instead? And why do you have to sleep on them?!

Beats me.

For some reason Lingay, North Uist, Scotland redirects to Linga (disambiguation). It is presumably the same as Linga, Killegray and should probably be deleted as it confuses. It is currently on the main list for example.

Anybody know where Lingeam per Linga (disambiguation) is? The dab page has no geographical clues beyond 'Hebrides'. Ben MacDui^Talk/Walk 21:31, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I think Lingeam is in the Outer Hebrides, somewhere between Barra Isles and Sound of Harris. By the way, I put a "Not to be confused with Strangeways" note on Strangeway ;) - perhaps prisons are more comfortable than most islands.! --MacRusgail (talk) 15:16, 14 January 2008 (UTC)