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List of Australia Schoolboy rugby league team players

List of Australia Schoolboy rugby league team players needs some sources or deletion. On the talk page an IP has asked for date changes but I can't help as the sole reference link doesn't work. Commander Keane (talk) 05:18, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Merger proposal - Men's Ashes Modern Series & Original Series

Hi all, Last year I proposed merging the original ashes and modern ashes series article together, this was done and undertaken. Given that just one of the teams has changed the Ryder Cup model seemed to fit. This seems to have then been undone - despite agreement being found. I've proposed the merger again and made a discussion here so we can come to a consensus. --Mollsmolyneux (talk) 12:57, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

N.B. I can see there was a discussion above RE: a separate page for Women's Ashes. While I don't think it needs one yet as one has yet to played and it was not a current ongoing series I'm happy to concede that point --Mollsmolyneux (talk) 13:01, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Weak oppose - While I don't see any harm in merging now, my worry is it will need splitting again in the not too far future, which was kind of the issue when the previous discussion happened. This might not be as bad an issue now that the women's ashes is a separate article, but all three merged was definitely impacting readability. Further, in my opinion, both are two separate series with different teams and a 22 year gap between the last of the old and first of the new. One page could promote editors to unify statistics which would require sourcing that the 2025 Ashes is the 40th of the series and not the 1st of a new revivied Ashes which isn't currently the case. In conclusion, I think that two articles is better futureproofing both. Mn1548 (talk) 09:10, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Weak oppose on the same basis as Mn1548. If 2025 is England v Australia (or vice versa if the IRL, ARLC & RFL can ever decide where the series will be played) as opposed to Great Britain v Australia, then it becomes a new event. The Ryder Cup isn't analogous as England and Great Britain are considered separate teams, unlike golf's expansion from GB to GB&I to GB&Europe. Nthep (talk) 10:34, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Sorry to be a pain, but do you both want to copy your responses onto the other talk page just so they're all together. Then I'll happily respond there! --Mollsmolyneux (talk) 12:46, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Ok. Done. Nthep (talk) 16:48, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Nthep Mn1548 (talk) 17:40, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Fassolette-Kielty Trophy start date.

RFL claim 2012 ref, FFR claim 2015 ref. Anyone have any further insight? Mn1548 (talk) 16:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't know why FFR say 2015 but one of the references in the article is to this 2012 article [1] which mentions the trophy by name and says in the inaugural playing. Nthep (talk) 17:37, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

There is also an article from 2021 on the FFR website that gives 2012: [2]. EdwardUK (talk) 21:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Is it Hull FC or Hull F.C.?

This has been rattling about in my head since I wrote up the articles for the 2024 and 2025 Hull F.C. (see already?) seasons, but I think there needs to be a bit of clarity and consistency on the issue.

Wikipedia tends to go for 'Hull F.C.' in most cases - see Hull F.C. and Template:Hull F.C. current squad - but then the by-season articles go by 'Hull FC' - see 2009 Hull FC season and so on. On the club's website, they refer to themselves as 'Hull FC', and the Betfred Super League refers to them as 'Hull FC'. As far as I can see, the only prominent instance of the 'Hull F.C.' title is on the club's badge.

So, on Wikipedia, which is it? Is it maybe worth combing each article related to or mentioning the club and renaming/editing them one way or the other? Hullian111 (talk) 12:07, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

In British sports clubs articles, football club is usually always stylised as "F.C." (see St Helens R.F.C., Harlequin F.C., Everton F.C. etc.), so for consistency's sake, I would just add the dots to the season article names. J Mo 101 (talk) 15:42, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

F.C. is an acronym for Football Club, so it should be "F.C." Mn1548 (talk) 09:33, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Given what the OP wrote about Hull FC, those last two comments are unhelpful. HiLo48 (talk) 09:40, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

The full name of rugby is rugby football, hence Rugby Football Club. "Football Club" can refer to any code of football. Mn1548 (talk) 10:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

The club website uses Hull FC and has done since 2000 (archived on wayback machine). This is also the version used on current news sources for the club such as BBC Sport, Love Rugby League and Hull Daily Mail. As such it would make sense for it to be the name that is used for the article title and although this does not fit with consistency for other articles it may be the equivalent of the unusual exceptions in the Biography MOS.

However, in other articles about the club, the name could vary depending on the time period being written about - I did an image search and found that on team photos from throughout their history the name varies between F.C. and FC (and sometimes N.U.F.C. and R.L.F.C.). This is also the case on the British Newspaper Archive where articles appear to mainly use F.C. to start with then a mix of F.C. and FC. EdwardUK (talk) 12:35, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for you and others' replies, I've been mulling your responses for the past couple of days, hence the delay in replying. Unfortunately, I don't really think the discussion has gotten any closer to a consensus.

If I may bring another concern to the fore, this issue is also prevalent in the articles for St Helens R.F.C. - for example, 2022 St Helens RLFC season and those by-season articles before it, as well as List of St Helens RLFC players. I have this gut feeling that getting these articles consistent in their titling is going to be a lot harder than it first looked. Hullian111 (talk) 20:02, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

The St Helens one is probably the more pressing issue as it is officially "St Helens R.F.C." per the badge and official website (despite rlfc in the URL). Mn1548 (talk) 14:08, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Regarding the fixing process (I wouldn't know how to do this) but their was a mass page move a while ago that changed every page with "Final" in the title to "final". Perhaps a similar thing could be done changing "St Helens RLFC" to "St Helens R.F.C."? Mn1548 (talk) 14:12, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Tours vs test series

Do these two terms have official destinctions? Tours seem to be a more historical concept whereas test series seem to have alot more recent uses especially given th3 shorter length of these "tours". The recent Tonga/Samoa v England games have been described as tours alot in the media. But series like USA v South Africa or last years Kenya v France, can these be described as tours? Considering they are both in one location (Pretoria and Nairobi) you can't say the team was "touring" the country, unlike the England series where the Pacific Islanders did move through England. They also are of a lower prifile so don't really have the mass media coverage for a consistent description of the event. Mn1548 (talk) 22:49, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I got the impression that it was a test series if just internationals against one team whereas historically tours involved multiple opponents and could include test series, for example – 1911 NZ in AUS: a tour without a test series, 1937–38 Kangaroo tour: a tour with 3x test series, 1995 Trans-Tasman Test series: just a test series without a tour. Most sources used in the 2023 Tonga and 2024 Samoa in England articles refer to them as test series more than tours. However, according to the IRL they have no official definition for Test match (and it would seem therefore of Test series) as noted in this 2020 article: Why SIMs – not Tests. It is basically down to what the individual governing bodies and those reporting on it have chosen to use. EdwardUK (talk) 14:44, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Tests and SIMs are basically one of the same thing, but that doesn't answer the tours vs test series question. Your argument on multiple vs single opponents is a good one. But that's not official. Mn1548 (talk) 21:25, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Without a clear definition for Test series the IRL site does not appear to indicate how to distinguish it from a tour – and they seem to be used interchangeably for example with Kenya in 2023 – reports for their matches against South Africa call it a "historic series" and a few weeks later it is called a "two-game tour", this was followed by the arrival of the France tour in Kenya for their two-game series. For Samoa in England they had this article: [3] that uses series and tour several times. There does not appear to be anything definitive on the ERL or NRL sites either, and the Asia-Pacific site has been dead for about a year. EdwardUK (talk) 23:51, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

"Quota players" page name

The Quota players article is entirely about the RFL and not a general page. The article should have a more precise name such as "RFL Overseas Quota" which is what various news outlets refers to it as and reflects sources already in the article. Mn1548 (talk) 13:18, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. Foreign players in sports leagues already exists as a more general page, so no issues with re-naming. J Mo 101 (talk) 14:45, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

It might only be about league in the UK at the moment but it could be expanded to cover other sports/leagues if they have quota requirements. Loan (sports) was only about football for a long time before being expanded to cover other sports. Nthep (talk) 14:54, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Such expansion can be covered in the Foreign players in sports leagues and if Quota players expands to include the NRL for example the page can be further renamed at a later date. Mn1548 (talk) 14:11, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

My search for "quota players" turned up a bunch of racial quota information from post-Apartheid South Africa, so I added in a section about that to the page, though it could probably use some more fleshing out. Primefac (talk) 15:51, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Well with that information now on, a merge of the two articles is probably the most appropriate with a bit of a reformat. Also expanded to link to Designated Player Rule and similar as these are a quota of players who are exempt from a salary cap. Mn1548 (talk) 16:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Nice job on the expansion, Mn1548, looks loads better now. Primefac (talk) 16:58, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Mn1548 (talk) 18:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)