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Wikipedia:Featured article review/Shapinsay/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was kept by Nikkimaria via FACBot (talk) 5:12, 3 August 2024 (UTC) [1].

Shapinsay

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Notified: Lurker (last edit was 2008), Ben MacDui, WikiProject Scotland, WikiProject Scottish Islands, WikiProject UK geography, WikiProject Islands, 2023-11-01

I am nominating this featured article for review because of uncited passages and the article has not been updated with much post-2008 information. Z1720 (talk) 16:57, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move to FARC It needs a lot of work to bring it up to current FA standard. The economy section alone does not really explain much about the island's economy and is mostly focused on transport. That is ok given its an island but then there is little explanation of the transport infrastructure eg ferry terminal and no detail about the ships Iona, Klydon and Clytus which must have had a major impact for the economy and socially for the island over the last century. Coldupnorth (talk) 10:06, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the heads-up. Not easy to know what else can be said about the economy - https://www.orkney.com/explore/shapinsay for example has little or no new detail. Omand (2003) has a few more historical snippets I think but I don't see anything new on Google books. I can have a look for some info about the ferry terminal etc. There's an interesting article here about electric ferries for example. However, I wouldn't expect a great deal of noteworthy information to have been accumulated since 2008. I have not been there since before that time but the last time I looked across the sound from Kirkwall it still seemed to be essentially the farming community of 300 folk it was then. Not sure about the 'uncited passages'. It's a while since I spent any time on the article but (unless you think every sentence needs one so that a single para might have several duplicate refs) I don't see any big problems. Any specifics gratefully received. As a jocular aside I find it amusing that the island has been inhabited for 4,000 years or more but an FA about it from 15 years ago is described as "very old". We all have our different perspectives I suppose. Ben MacDui 12:40, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ben MacDui happy to see you on board! If you can add those bits you mention above, I'll have another look (as I was the author of the original concerns). Let me know when you think it's ready for a new look. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:37, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Good to hear from you Sandy. I hope to take a look this coming weekend. Ben MacDui 18:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have added a bit about the Klydon and Clytus which had rather undistinguished origins. There does not appear to be a ferry terminal as such as the image suggests. I'll have another stab as soon as I can manage. Ben MacDui 16:19, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Good additions. I added a bit on agriculture too as an update. I think the economy and now transport sections are much improved already. Coldupnorth (talk) 23:52, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
SandyGeorgia et al. I have made some references more detailed, tweaked the lead and added a short section that covers some of the downsides of the Balfour improvements. (I might add a short note to this as well.) I can't seen any egregious examples of missing citations. Please let me know what you think. Ben MacDui 11:13, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Ben MacDui: While waiting for Sandy to respond, I'll note some things below:
  • The demography section needs an update with 2021 data.
    • The census in Scotland was undertaken in 2022. To the best of my knowledge there is no data yet for the islands – I beleive this is likely to appear in 2024. (The updates for all islands is a substantial task.)
  • The history section has nothing post-1980. Are there any notable events from the past 40+ years?
    • I met someone once who was from Shapinsay and had been appointed to a short-life government advisory board. Not sure this is super notable. I wonder when history ends and the modern economy begins. To me at least 1990 isn’t yet ‘history’. There is a bit of breaking news here I can add.
  • I see references in the lede, which is sometimes a sign that information has been added to the lede that is not in the article body. Is this information in the article body? If so, these references are not needed.
    • MOS:CITELEAD seems to be a bit wishy-washy about this sort of thing. I'll take a look.
  • Many references are not of the highest quality, with many primary sources and tourism sites used. Can these sources be replaced?
    • It is a recurring feature of encyclopedic work in relation to Scottish islands (and, I imagine, rural areas elsewhere in the world) that these resources are often called into question – but that none other are available. Undiscovered Scotland for example is often grumbled about – yet it is an excellent source of information and I have never found it to be inaccurate.
  • Many sources have incomplete information, such as author, name of the website that is publishing this information, and archival information. Can each of the sources be looked at and information added?
    • Perhaps we are more ADHD now than we were. I will have a look.
  • Has a search been done of academic sources that could be added to the article, particularly ones published after this article was promoted?
    • How often do get published about modern Shapinsay? I am no longer as assiduous as I once was in seeking academic-style books or articles out but my guess is that Omand (2003) was the last one. In short I am not aware of better sources.

I hope this helps. Z1720 (talk) 00:25, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    • Thanks Ben MacDui 10:17, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Z1720: I have now:
      • Added the minor bit of breaking news referred to above.
      • Removed the citations from the lead.
      • Done a first pass at tidying them up. There is a dead link but no sign of a wayback archive being available. Ref #80 has a funny little ‘note’ that could arguably be removed or moved to the notes section.
    • I also note that:
      • There are a certain number of newer academic publications about local prehistory, history and some detailed work on local seabirds and seaweed but nothing at all that I can see about the modern political economy or anything in the former categories that (at first sight) suggests they have importance for this article.
      • It is a feature of Shapinsay that although many the larger Orcadian isles – and some of the smaller ones such as Papa Westray - have archaeological sites of world importance Shapinsay has a relative paucity of them. I can’t see anything new on Canmore or JSTOR that needs to be added. Ben MacDui 11:50, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Recent news is typically harder to find academic sources for. Therefore, it might be better to look at local sources for information to add to the History section. I would suggest at least a sentence on the island's votes on the Scottish independence referendum and Brexit. Z1720 (talk) 16:10, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Orkney voted 63.2% 'Remain' and 67.2% 'No' but this data is not broken down by individual island. I am pretty sure this doesn't happen even for local authority elections, Shapinsay being part of the North Isles ward. See also Constitutional status of Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles. Ben MacDui 13:48, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I was doing some tidying up and came across Irvine's Blaeu's Maps of the Northern Isles. I'd rather forgotten about it - I purchased it a few years after the Shapinsay FAC and used it on a few other articles. There are some snippets about the 17th century I can add. Not much perhaps but "happy is the land that has no history". Ben MacDui 12:08, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am not aware of any further issues needing attention. Please indicate any I may have missed. Ben MacDui 17:00, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article is much improved. I would now rate it as Keep as FA. Coldupnorth (talk) 15:10, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there anything more that can be added about the flora - the two reserves? Is the island all grassland and meadows? Are there any trees? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:54, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Orkney has very few stands of trees other than at Happy Valley on the Mianland and Shapinsay is pretty much all grass. I will however have a hunt for some more info soonest. Ben MacDui 17:29, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Casliber There is a decent picture here. If you scroll down you can see a woman with a red jacket walking through the landscape described as “a patchwork of lush grazing interspersed with fields of barley”. The summer wildflowers are a sight but there is nothing particularly special about Shapinsay from that point of view, at least afaik. The list of flower species is borrowed from the main Orkney article. The nature reserves seem to be shy about the details of the flora. I added some bumblebee info too. Ben MacDui 10:20, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Ben MacDui: are you still working on this article? The last edit was in January. I think there's still some information that can be added in the "History" and the Demography section can be updated with the latest census figures. Z1720 (talk) 22:17, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Z1720: I'd be happy to continue working on this but (1) per the above the new census data has not yet appeared and (2) if you can make a suggestion or two about what aspects of the history are worth adding I can look into that. Ben MacDui 17:25, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Ben MacDui: I am not too familiar with this topic, so I am not sure what to specifically suggest. However, there must be some post-1980 events that have happened at this location. Is there anything significant in terms of natural disasters, political events, the completion or discontinue of major infrastructure projects, and political events might be information that you could add to the article. Z1720 (talk) 14:17, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Z1720: There are numerous references to 21st century events under the economy, transport, education and culture headings. I'll have another look but bear in mind that this is an island with a population of 300 (roughly equivalent to Camden East), many of whom are farmers. I doubt there are too many political events of note to record. Ben MacDui 14:43, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I had a trawl through the BBC website again. We have

There was also a story about a jailed rapist who lived on the island – although the crimes were committed elsewhere and I am not keen on an inclusion. Ben MacDui 20:32, 9 March 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • @Ben MacDui: These stories feel like routine articles and I'm not sure if any of them are notable. Instead, I think some of the events listed in other sections that you mention above should be moved into the history section. Z1720 (talk) 14:32, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Z1720: I moved the bit about the seocndary school closing in 95 and the improved commuting generally. I don't think it makes much sense to discuss the history of the ferrys under "history" and then come back to the same topic again later under "transport". Ben MacDui 11:56, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Z1720

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Reviewing this to hopefully get this out of FAR:

  • The demographics in the lede, infobox and Demographics section are from 2011. Can these be updated with the latest census data?
    • Per the above, the census in Scotland was undertaken in 2022. There is no data yet for the islands – it looks like it may now be 2025 before this is published.
  • The "Economy" section uses some citations and information from 2007, when the article first went to FAC. These should be updated with more recent sources to show that the economy remains as described in the text, or updated to reflect more recent trends.
    • It is a recurring theme of the review that somehow a small farming community of 300 ought to produce reliable data on a regular basis about such things. It's not really clear to me where this would be obtained. I will take another look at the development trust website.
  • "Education and culture" also needs to be updated with the latest figures.
    • I note that the primary school now has 23 pupils rather than 26. I'll make the change asap.
  • I did a copyedit of the article. Feel free to revert anything, but please note it below.
    • I may add back one or two of the bits you removed - e.g. about the unusual field pattern which afaik is unique in Orkney.

Hope this helps. Z1720 (talk) 16:20, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I did a search for sources and found an academic paper about Shapinsay's energy program. I see no other reason to prevent his from being kept as an FA. Z1720 (talk) 17:17, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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