Jrsuchin

New Editor: Resubmission of Draft:Pan Sophic

FormalDude I am a new editor & appreciate your diligence to the community and records that millions depend on! On this note, realizing many of my gaps and observing changes provided by another user, I have made updates sand edits to supplement the areas needing citation and adjusted language to 1) be in line with content guidelines requiring summarization of content, 2) correctly reflect the most recent records available. I am looking into other resources and records that this group can provide to further supplement and improve the current content so it is more in-line with featured examples on the fraternities and sororities project page. Is this re-submission compliant with the expected standard of new pages? If not, I'd like the opportunity to continue improving the content so an accurate record is provided. Jrsuchin (talk) 23:59, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your willingness to work with the Wikipedia community and its policies and guidelines, that is greatly appreciated.

Your re-submission is much better. My main concern was the copyright violation, which has now been resolved.

My main feedback as of now would be making sure all the citations are properly formatted in alignment with WP:CITE. The first citation, for example, is of a book, but it does not include the specific page numbers that are being referenced. Can you please add the specific page numbers that verify the article content to the citation and then re-add once identified?

Additionally, some editors may question the significance of coverage in the sources, so the more in-depth records you can find that verify the article content, the better. ––FormalDude talk 00:56, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you FormalDude for your responsiveness and detail! I will seek to 1) review WP:CITE and align with those guidelines and 2) update citations where possible.

Regarding the 1st Citation noted, I see clearly the error here now. There should be an opportunity in the coming week or two to obtain the physical copy of the book to identify the specific page numbers. In the meantime, Is it recommended to remove the citation until specific page numbers can be identified?

My original template for this page was based on the entry for another fraternity originating from the same college (Adelphikos); observing for example the areas they cross-referenced their website and content. Is this page in fair standing?

Since starting, I've sought to identify published pages that are part of the Fraternities and Sororities WikiProject to use as examples/templates to emulate in structure and content. Thank you again for your time and attention.Jrsuchin (talk) 02:42, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

I think it's fine to leave the book citation there in the meantime, as long as you're certain it is a verifying source. If you're not certain and need to review the source first, then I would remove it.

The page is in fair standing, and it's great that you're using examples from WikiProject Fraternities and Sororities as a template for this article. I'd recommend checking out their Featured articles and Good articles specifically, as those are the best of the best, and ideally what every article should look like. Kappa Kappa Psi is a great featured article to use as a basis for your own fraternity articles (don't worry that yours isn't as leangthy, it takes a lot of time to develop an article for WP:FA).

I'm going to continue reviewing the page and will likely publish it tomorrow, assuming another reviewer doesn't get to it first. ––FormalDude talk 02:58, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! From a New Editor

Jax MN your education, insight, and assistance is greatly appreciated!

No problem-o. This evening I created Wikipedia REDIRECTS for all the other active Grove City fraternities and sororities, providing a similar talk page to explain how to write their articles. I note that several of the groups have had WP pages previously, which have been deleted for the same reason as Pans. Too often new editors get burned a bit when they copy and paste a group's website text over to WP. That's not how it's done here, as you've seen. But experienced editors sometimes breeze through, dump a page, and leave a cryptic remark that is clear to us, but seems like a blunt, personal attack to the newbie. Now, clearly, FormalDude was reasonable about all this when he saw the earnest effort to fix the page. So, things should be good with the resubmittal. Fix that citation over the next week or two.

Meanwhile, if there is a problem with the crest image, there is another way to do it if anyone on the graphics side complains about the license to use that crest. WP allows a reduced-size image as a corporate identifier / logo, which can simply be used from an existing website. Even if copyrighted or with an ambiguous license. Ping me if you have trouble with this. Jax MN (talk) 05:16, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Jrsuchin, you are invited to the Teahouse!

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Your draft article was approved and published at Pan Sophic

Your draft article has been approved and published! ––FormalDude talk 22:03, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Jrsuchin, congratulations. Along the way we picked up the fact that you were a member of the Pans. That's fine, and as long as you write in an "encyclopedic" way and do not detour into what we call "peacock" or promotional language, your submissions here will be readily acceptable. You may be inspired to help the other campus groups write a similar page, with useful info and clear language that is not copied and pasted from their websites. Many of these groups are so darn old that interesting photos are available that were published before 1926, and are free to use - speaking generally.

As a long-time Greek advisor, from a chapter that itself is even older than the Pans, I tell my kids that we are in this together as Greeks, and that we can only be so much better than the weakest link. So, I'm a big believer in helping the other chapters on my campus, and all Greeks. I also support national affiliation and the resultant insurance programs, risk management training, professional assessment of programs and clear goal-setting that comes from good national groups. I know that your school doesn't currently permit this. There ARE great, old locals out there, and so I was pleased to see a healthy bunch of y'all at Grove City College. It reminds me in a way of the College of Wooster fraternities, where I did some similar work to clarify their existence and history on an extensive Wikipedia page. This process has taught you a lot, and you are doing fine. If you end up joining the Fraternity and Sorority Project (linked on the Talk page) you'd be welcome to help monitor the 1,800 or so pages we track. We aim to have a page for all groups that have existed with at least three chapters, and for locals that have at least ten years of bona fide, provable existence. --These are the rules that Baird used in his reference tome, and they've been adopted as a reasonable bar, with other points, by the F&S Project group. Jax MN (talk) 23:03, 29 August 2021 (UTC)