Talk:Acoustic Planet

Discussion during article creation

Hi Cloud atlas, This one has been an uphill for me, not sure why. So, many distractions. I look forward to your comments, criticism, and suggestions. I hope I've now got the messaging correct to flag you on my latest attempt at an article. It has been mentioned in several articles that one of Chaquico's musical tracks, "One World" from the Acoustic Planet album is orbiting around the earth in a NASA project called Space Ark, but I cannot find an independent source to verify. Any suggestions? Many thanks for your help! Cheryl Fullerton (talk) 00:47, 23 December 2018 (UTC)Cheryl Fullerton

Hey Cheryl Fullerton -- I just checked out the article and looked for some sources, and I can see why you've been having trouble -- there's very little published online about the album! I think that's surprising given that it topped a Billboard chart and got nominated for a Grammy. The only thing I could find that you don't have yet is this in the Marin Independent Journal. Unfortunately, since a Wikipedia article can only contain information with reliable sources, it means the article is probably going to be pretty short. I made some changes to the lead section and deleted some content that I didn't think was relevant to the album. I also added a "Professional reviews" section and put the 4.5/5 rating from AllMusic in there. Going forward, I think your best bet is to:

• Create a track listing by copying/pasting the wikitext template from Acoustic Highway, and filling it in using the track titles and length info from allmusic.com.
• Put the Billboard info and Grammy nomination in an "Reception and accolades" section.
• You can also summarize the allmusic.com review in that "Reception and accolades" section. I usually do it in one sentence that ends with a quote. Here's is an example from this article about the album "Tell Me How You Really Feel" I was working on: Laura Snapes of Pitchfork called the album "smaller, more introverted", and wrote that the lower energy yielded an "adventurous and nuanced" album that "tells stories of tenderness and frustration". Since the AllMusic review doesn't have an author, you'll just have to say "AllMusic called the album..." or whatever.
• Remove anything in the article that is just about Chaquico's career, and not directly about the album. That info belongs in the Chaquico article, and I don't think we need to add any of it to the Acoustic Planet article just to fill it out.

It's totally fine if this article ends up being short and not having all the sections filled in. How does this sound? -- Cloud atlas (talk) 05:02, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Cloud atlas

Thanks again for the input. It makes perfect sense. I have a photo of a press release about the Space Arc CD launched in the satellite. Can this work? Can I put a JPEG in this sandbox without it being a problem, or will that potentially violate some copyright rules? It's on letterhead, but I don't see a publication date or something I could use for citing. Many thanks, again and I hope you had interesting travels and good times for your holidays.Cheryl Fullerton (talk) 23:46, 2 January 2019 (UTC)Cheryl Fullerton

Hey Cheryl Fullerton -- I did find one source mentioning that Chaquico is in a Space Ark: https://www.allmusic.com/artist/craig-chaquico-mn0000124734/biography. The weird thing is that I can't find anything else on the internet confirming that such a Space Ark even exists -- I would imagine that if the Space Ark really existed, there would be sources about it on the internet, especially given that it would have been a government project with many enthusiasts. Given what I can find online about it, I actually don't think that factoid seems reliable enough to be included. What do you think? -- Cloud atlas (talk) 06:01, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Cloud atlas -- What do you think about the press release? There might be a phone number on the photo I have of it I can try to confirm. Also, when I make the suggested changes, should I go ahead and include the image of the album cover? Should I post, as you suggested as an draft article rather than in my sandbox as you suggested before? Many thanks for the support. Cheryl Fullerton (talk) 18:26, 14 January 2019 (UTC)Cheryl Fullerton

@Cheryl Fullerton: I think that you should probably exclude the Space Ark element, because there are almost no sources to support it. For a good Wikipedia article, it is smart for us to err on the side of only including things that we're sure about and that are verifiable. When you get the article to a point where it's ready to be published (that doesn't mean it has to be finished!), let me know and I'll explain how you can move it into the main namespace yourself -- you have enough edits to do that. Then you can keep working on it even after if it's published. And yes, you can go ahead and add the album cover like you did for Acoustic Highway. I remember that was tricky last time. Let me know if you get stuck! -- Cloud atlas (talk) 07:05, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Cloud atlas Hi, it's me again! I'm trying to figure out how to upload the Acoustic Planet cover. Hopefully, you can help. I added the tracks and very little in the music and lyrics section. If you have any other suggestions, let me know. I'm trying to come up with something more for the music and lyrics section that describes the music. Cheryl Fullerton (talk) 01:45, 21 January 2019 (UTC)Cheryl Fullerton

Hi Cheryl Fullerton. I did some tightening on the draft. Here are some of the things I did:

• I combined a few of the sections into one "Background and recording" section, just so there wouldn't be so many separate sections with only one sentence in each.
• I renamed the "Critical reception and Accolades" section to just "Accolades", since we weren't able to find any written reviews by critics.
• When you had a citation in the middle of a sentence, I moved it to the end of the sentence, because that is better style.
• I removed some errant citations you made to the Acoustic Highway page on AllMusic, since those aren't really relevant to Acoustic Planet.

Since we've exhausted all our sources, I think this draft now has just about all the information we can get, and so the last step is to add the photo. Here's how to do it:

1. You can take the image from AllMusic or Amazon and just download it onto your desktop.
2. Go to this Wikipedia upload page: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Special:Upload
3. Upload the file, and name it something like "Acoustic Planet Chaquico.jpeg"
4. In the "Summary" box, paste the template shown on this page: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Template:Non-free_use_rationale_album_cover. If you scroll down the page, you'll see the exact wikitext to paste.
5. Fill in the template as best you can.
6. Under "Licensing", choose the row that says "Album or single cover".
7. Click "Upload file".
8. Then edit your sandbox draft, and add the name of the file in the row in the infobox that says "cover".

After you get this in there, you can go ahead and move the draft into the main article space! In other words, now that you have a lot of Wikipedia edits, you no longer have to submit the draft for review. Here's how to do that:

1. Go to the sandbox draft, and click on "More" in the top row (don't click "Edit source" first -- you need to be in reading mode).
2. Then click "Move".
3. On the menu that comes up, under "New title", choose "(Article)" in the dropdown and type "Acoustic Planet" in the box next to it.
4. Then, under "Reason", you can write that you are finished drafting and ready to publish the article into the main article space.
5. Then click "Move Page".

That's it! Let me know if you have any issues with either of these steps. -- Cloud atlas (talk) 04:35, 21 January 2019 (UTC) Cloud atlasi'm having a devil of a time uploading the file to the infobox. It keeps putting in the file name and no image! Grrr..I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I'll go back and check the Acoustic Highway Info Box, maybe that will help. The file name is "Acoustic Planet Chaquico.jpeg as you suggested. I see that underscores go between the words when it is uploaded. Any ideas? Cheryl Fullerton (talk) 23:30, 25 January 2019 (UTC)Cheryl Fullerton {{u|Cloud atlas Never mind! I guess I wasn't putting the correct file name in the cover line. Sorry, for the false alarm! Thanks so much for the help. Cheryl Fullerton (talk) 23:41, 25 January 2019 (UTC)Cheryl Fullerton Cloud atlas Success! But now they ask that I move it to my user space or delete the sandbox template? Cheryl Fullerton (talk) 23:50, 25 January 2019 (UTC)Cheryl Fullerton

Nice job, Cheryl Fullerton! You got the photo up, and moved the article to the main article space yourself! I deleted that sandbox template for you. Since the article got started in your sandbox, there was a little bit of wikitext at the top of the page saying that it is a sandbox draft. Once the article was moved to the main article space, that bit of wikitext basically started saying, "Time to delete me!" Just something to remember for the future. If you want to keep track of how many people are viewing the articles you've made, you can use this link. I see there are already some views there. What's your next project? -- Cloud atlas (talk) 23:26, 2 February 2019 (UTC) Cloud atlas Hi! Thanks for all the expert input! I couldn't have done it without you! My original goal was to get Chaquico a link at the bottom of the Jefferson Starship page like the other founding members of the group, but without the two articles, I was told it couldn't be done. I hope to accomplish that now. Do you have any tips on how to do that, or perhaps you can point me to a section that explains all of that. You can view the the discussion on the Jefferson Starship page. I was contributing to that page when I first started and made a lot of false steps which I was called on. In the end, I think I improved the page by adding some nice photos. Thanks again! Cheryl Fullerton

Cloud atlas Hi Cloud atlas, I don't know if you got the message above, so I'm sending you another email about my intention of linking both "Acoustic Highway and Acoustic Planet to the Jefferson Starship page in the "External Links" section at the bottom of that page. Here is the url: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Jefferson_Starship There is a partial list of Jefferson Starship members that link that page with links to their solo projects and other things. I would like to Chaquico's name to that template. Any experience or helpful suggestions with that? I would very much appreciate any of your insight into doing that. Thank you for helping get my new "Barnstar" designation! Cheryl Fullerton (talk) 22:58, 15 February 2019 (UTC)Cheryl Fullerton

Image got removed

Hi Cheryl Fullerton -- I'm glad to see you're working on another article! I noticed that a bot removed the album cover image from your sandbox page, and I just wanted to explain my understanding of why. Album covers are not openly-licensed images, but in English Wikipedia they can be used for "fair use", which means for a certain set of purposes. Album covers can be used for illustrating what album it is (which is what you'll be doing with it in the article). But they cannot be used for just practicing illustrating in the sandbox. So that all just means that when you publish the real article, you can add the image there. -- Cloud atlas (talk) 05:06, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Cloud atlas -- Okay, I'm doubling up on this question, sorry! I think I get it now. The bot really confused me. Hope you are doing well, and sorry I haven't been keeping up. Cheryl Fullerton (talk) 17:56, 1 March 2020 (UTC)Cheryl Fullerton

Can I remove the Warning above. I'm also, not sure what that is all about. Thanks for your help! Cheryl Fullerton (talk) 17:56, 1 March 2020 (UTC)Cheryl Fullerton

Use of forward slash

Cloud atlas

Hi Cloud atlas, I hope you and yours are staying healthy during these very strange times. I have a question for you that I wasn't able to find an answer to by looking around on Wikipedia. This is in reference to the Jefferson Starship article on which I've made some edits.

On the album "Blows Against the Empire" Paul Kantner's solo album it says this:

"Paul Kantner's debut solo album actually was credited to "Paul Kantner/Jefferson Starship," the first use of the "Starship" billing, predating the formation of the group with that name by four years. Kantner used it, extrapolating on the name of his current band, Jefferson Airplane, to refer to Blows's science fiction concept: A bunch of left-wing hippies closely resembling his San Francisco...."

I have tried to get AbleGus to agree to use the credit "Paul Kantner/Jefferson Starship" reference from the article in All Music https://www.allmusic.com/album/blows-against-the-empire-mw0000024441 to no avail. It is also referenced this way in Jeff Tamarkin's book, "Got a Revolution." I think using an "&" ampersand or "and" sends the wrong message to readers, leading them to think that this is an album by Jefferson Starship when it clearly is not. So, I guess I'm asking if there is some style reason for not using the forward slash as it appears in several current articles and the Tamarkin book, or what is the reason for an argument to not use the slash? Does this make sense?

I always appreciate your clear thinking on these matters. Any advice would be helpful. Regards, Cheryl Fullerton (talk) 23:25, 7 May 2020 (UTC)Cheryl Fullerton

Hi Cheryl Fullerton -- I just got your message and I scanned over your conversation at Talk:Jefferson Starship#Recent Edits. It looks like you and AbleGus reached an agreement? Would you still like me to check it all over? It sounds like your concern is that "Paul Kantner/Jefferson Starship" makes it sound like the album is by "Paul Kantner of Jefferson Starship", whereas "Paul Kantner & Jefferson Starship" makes it sound like the album is by "Paul Kantner and his band Jefferson Starship". Is that your primary concern with the wording? -- Cloud atlas (talk) 06:05, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi Cloud atlas I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you on this. This is a very confusing topic. Here's what I think. I think the forward slash should be used when referring to the artist on the "Blows Against the Empire" album. Here's why: The latest articles that reference the artist, use the "Paul Kantner/Jefferson Starship" in referring to the artist. This predates the formation of the band, Jefferson Starship, by 4 years. The musicians that played on this album did not constitute the band that formed in 1974, Jefferson Starship. In fact, Paul Kantner loosely called the musicians that contributed to the album, The Planet Earth Rock and Roll Orchestra according to Jeff Tamarkin on page 231. The use of Paul Kantner/Jefferson Starship is further supported in Jeff Tamarkin's book, "Got a Revolution! The Turbulent Flight of Jefferson Airplane" page 383. I believe this makes it less likely that a reader might think that this was a Jefferson Starship album. The other editor wants to use the ampersand (&)or "and" which I think is more confusing. I would be grateful if you could take a look on the talk page of Jefferson Starship and offer any suggestions, or does this need to be mediated somehow? Always appreciate another set of eyes on my thinking!Cheryl Fullerton (talk) 23:55, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Cheryl Fullerton

And, yes we were able to agree on the added information about Chaquico.

Hi, Cloud atlas I think I need to add that Jefferson Starship was not a band at the time that Paul Kantner and the Planet Earth Rock and Roll Orchestra recorded "Blows Against the Empire". Jefferson Starship did not form until four years letter. That is what I'm trying to clarify. Kantner apparently came up with the Jefferson Starship label at the time to keep the association with Jefferson Airplane for marketing purposes, and may have possibly been thinking into future names for a band. I appreciate any consideration you can give to my thoughts and suggestions are always welcome.Cheryl Fullerton (talk) 00:26, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Cheryl Fullerton

Cloud atlas

Hi I'm trying to resend this in case it didn't go through. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cheryl Fullerton (talk • contribs) 23:09, 2 June 2020 (UTC)