Asteiner

Hi, I just got back home and I'll get to work as soon as I can. =) -- ran (talk) 01:12, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I've run into a pretty serious problem.... the version of Photoshop that I have, namely Adobe Photoshop CS2, does not support right-to-left scripts such as Hebrew and Arabic. So I'm wondering...

• ... is there a way to make Photoshop (non-Middle Eastern version) accept Hebrew text?
• ... if not, is there another program that would allow me to add Hebrew text?
• ... if not, would it be okay for me to send you a blank map that you can then add labels to?

-- ran (talk) 16:07, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

For the location maps, if i remember right, i used MS Paint. However, the third option is my prefered one. Just how you can send it over, though, I'm not sure. I think the best thing would be to publish your all blank maps in Wikimedia Commons and save yourself the headache，是不是啊？ UncleMatt 15:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm trying to get a copy of Photoshop Middle East right now, so if I can get it I'll make the Hebrew map... I'll keep you posted on what happens. -- ran (talk) 08:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

About the translation of ethnic autonomous entities in China:

There's a systematic way to which autonomous entities are named, and I've tried to carry that system into the English language. Each autonomous region is named as: Region Name + Ethnic Name + Jurisdiction Type. E.g.

• Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region
• Aba Tibetan and Qiang Autonomous Prefecture
• Muli Tibetan Autonomous County
• etc.

As far as I can tell, there isn't a single system in the way you've translated the names. For example, there is:

• Jurisdiction + Ethnic + Region (ח"א מונגולי וטיבטי חאי-שׂי)
• Jurisdiction + Region + Ethnic (ח"א אַבּה של טיבטים ובני צְ'יַאנְג)
• Jurisdiction + Ethnic + Jurisdiction again? + Region (המחוז האוּיגוּרי האוטונומי שׂין-גְ'יַאנג)

I gave it some thought back then, but there is a lot of difficulty with this. The problem here arises from the fact that the Hebrew language does not lend itself easily to such long clauses, especially with foreign names as adjectives (Translating 中华人民共和国香港特别行政区 is a nightmare). The first example is the ideal. The second is problematic because making an adjective out of Qiang (qiang -> qiangi צ'יאנג -> צ'יאנגי) just doesn't sound right. Instead I wrote AP of Tibetans and Qiang people (or something). With the Qiang it's just cumbersome, but with the Hui it's practically impossible. If you really think it's a problem, I'll reconsider "ח"א טיבטי וצְ'יַאנְגִי אַבּה". As for the third one, you're right Here's my correction:

האזור האוטונומי האוּיגוּרי שׂין-גְ'יַאנג

In addition, you seem to use a different word to translate Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (המחוז האוּיגוּרי האוטונומי שׂין-גְ'יַאנג) in comparison to autonomous regions in general (אזור אוטונומי).

See above my double correction.

Now.... I don't really know Hebrew beyond the alphabet, so I might be misunderstanding your system here, but the result is that I cannot reconstruct how to translate the names of Guangxi Zhuang A.R. and Ningxia Hui A.R. into Hebrew... Would it be, for example, האזור האוטונומי הג'ואנג גְװַאנְג-שׂי?

I couldn't say. What you wrote sounds problematic, but not necessarily wrong. It's a problematic case. As before I would probably prefer a less consistant wording, but one that Sound a bit better to my ears:

א"א גְװַאנְג-שׂי של בני הג'ואנג

and

א"א נִינְג-שְׂיָה של בני החווי

I really cannot explain this. Just sounds better.

Also, is it okay to use א"א as an abbreviation? E.g. א"א מונגוליה הפנימית or א"א הג'ואנג גְװַאנְג-שׂי?

Yep, as long as you put it in the legend.

-- ran (talk) 08:13, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

In any case, here's a preview.... tell me if you spot anything that's not right:

Perfect. Very impressive. There are a few things I would change in the transliterations, but they're all my fault and they're not critical, except for Lanzhou, which should be לַאן-ג'וֹאוּ

-- ran (talk) 09:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

One more thing... is there a consistent way of converting pinyin into Hebrew representation?

The only thing in existance is this table, from the Hebrew University, which is quite new (from last year): [1]. It's generally ok, except for a few things I disagree. However, you will notice that there is more than one way to transliterate some of the syllables. So, strictly speaking, the answer is no. In effect, everyone just writes what he thinks is best. If you'll look in the map, you'll notice that even I transliterated h sometimes to ה and sometimes to ח. I just can't decide which one's better (I spread many ח around, but now I'm having serious second thoughts about it).

There are a few things that I find a bit puzzling..., e.g.

• שָאַן-שׂי and ג'יאנְגְ-שׂי and גְװַאנְג-שׂי, but שַאן-שִי
• יִין-צְ'וַאן vs סֱה-צְ'װַאן.
• Is "-ng" represented as נְגְ or as נְג? I see both, e.g. גְוַאנְגְ-דונְג vs גְװַאנְג-שׂי. Then there is שׂין-גְ'יַאנג.

Shanxi is my mistake. Should be שַׁאן-שִׂי.

I would change actually the Si in Sichuan: סְה. As for the Chuan, neither is perfect, but I think צְ'וַאן is better: סְה-צְ'וַאן. I fixed it in the box as well.

נְגְ is a mistake. I see I did that in Jiangxi and I'll correct it. The best option is נְג and you may apply it as you see fit.

As a bonus here's a brief introduction to the world of Nikkud: The thing is that the vowel markers (all the little dots and stuff) are only there to help you read and are never obligatory and they are seldom used. This is because on one hand the average Hebrew reader can read easily without them, but on the other, to apply them correctly on Hebrew text is an extremely difficult art. The average Joe (or Moshe) doesn't know when to put ַ or ָ or ֲ. All three sound the same, but have different gramatical and historical meaning. The good news is that there aren't too many rules for using nikkud with foreign words, so it's easier to apply. I forgot the point behind all this. Perhaps it was all to explain that it's not a mistake to omit the ְ from the נ. In general, it would hardly ever be wrong to omit nikkud.

-- ran (talk) 15:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

The map is great! Thanks for all the effort. See my responses inline.UncleMatt 23:43, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments! I'll get to work on the map tonight and hopefully a final version can be up by tomorrow. -- ran (talk) 22:14, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I've uploaded the corrected version. Please tell me what you think. -- ran (talk) 12:59, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Looks great! I'm still considering some modifications to the transliterations. As I told you before, there is no clear solution to this issue and I am likely to want to modify it over and over again. I really don't want to bother you with my indecisiveness, though, so I think it would be best if I had the sources for this to play with. In the meantime I'm passing it around between some interested folks (very few), to hear their opinion. UncleMatt 10:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I put the map in Hebrew wiki and updated the PRC entry he:הרפובליקה העממית של סין UncleMatt 12:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi,

Is it okay if I sent you the file in psd format? This way you can modify the text layers in Photoshop.

-- ran (talk) 16:25, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes UncleMatt 17:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi,

Could you give me your email address so that I can send the file to you? Thanks -- ran (talk) 16:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't log in to this account in a while. I was really busy working and finding moving to my new place in Tel Aviv. I prefer not to publish my e-mail address here, but i think you can easily e-mail me by following the link "E-mail this user" on the left.

I finally started translating the huge artice about Tibet. The current entry in Hebrew about Tibet is a disgrace. I scanned through your discussion page and found out that you're really active on that topic and there are some editing wars raging on there, so if you have any comments about this, let them be heard. (I doubt if anyone will start such a war in Hebrew Wiki, we have wars of our own, you know). UncleMatt 15:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi,

how do I email you? When I click on "email this user", I get "This user has not specified a valid e-mail address, or has chosen not to receive e-mail from other users."

-- ran (talk) 05:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

被改正了. 请再试，谢谢 UncleMatt 16:44, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Hebrew Niqqud/Dagesh

I was looking for help from a native Hebrew speaker concerning the niqqud and dagesh marks on a few Hebrew words. Your help would be much appreciated. Brownsc (talk) 00:31, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

sure. what's the question? UncleMatt (talk) 12:10, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

These are a few words on which I tried to add the vowels and dagesh myself.

נְבִיאִים רִאשׁוֹנִים

נְבִיאִים אַחֲרונִים

תְּרֵי עֲשַׂר

אֱמֶ״ת

חָמֵשׁ מְגִילּוֹת‎

Could you correct any omissions or misplaced points for me, please? Brownsc (talk) 18:47, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

There were some minor errors, which I corrected above

- In Nevi'im Rishonim I removed the misplaced holam and added a hirik.

- In Trei Asar I added a dagesh in the Tav.

You may not be aware of this, but adding correct nikkud is very complicated, a profession even. I am not a professional nakdan, but to my best judgment, the nikkud is now correct. UncleMatt (talk) 05:56, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I think that adding niqqud based on how a word sounds is impossible, but what can I do? Well, I guess I could take the time to actually learn it. Hahahah. Thank you for the help. Brownsc (talk) 18:35, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I also had one more question, is the word "Mikra" spelt with niqqud as

מִקראַ

Brownsc (talk) 18:44, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Nope. It's מִקְרָא UncleMatt (talk) 05:51, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

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Abraham Isaac Kook

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